Power/Torque Levels and Loss of Traction

So this discussion pops in and out every once in awhile in the shout box. I thought I'd make a thread to ask my question on it. Given decent all-season or summer tires, at what power or torque levels will you start losing traction when going WOT on 3rd gear?

For reference, I'm running Continental DWS06 225/40/18 tires on my GenPu with the K04. With a tune that was around 250+ horsepower and around 290-295 torque, I would lose traction in 2nd gear, but I could still go WOT on 3rd gear and not lose traction. How do you guys fare?

 

This is a tricky question since different turbos will give you different torque characteristics and will break the tires free differently. Back when I went from K04 to GT30 I actually gained power but since it came in later, I was able to hold traction for longer in whichever gear I was in.

tl;dr - buy a nice big turbo

 

Just reduce load targets in lower gears and don't spin at all. This is very easy to control in the tune.

There's no one size fits all answer for this question unfortunately.

 

I suppose that's true. If everyone had the same turbo and setup, it would be easy to compare.

Good tip on lowering load targets with the tune. Some will argue that you are leaving untapped power if you do that. However if you are already spinning your tires anyway when going WOT, then you're not just losing power, you're wasting your tires too.

Still waiting for my K04 to die before I can justify the expense going big turbo, but it looks like I will hit 80k miles before that happens LOL. I'm already close to 68k miles on my 2013 and it's been bullet proof so far.

 

tires will have a significant impact as well. With my K04 and the 245/40 Potenzas I had on there I`d boil them in 3rd after my tune making roughly 330/380. I got the Pilot Super Sports and I could even get them to grab in 2nd with a bit of throttle elegance. Now with the bigger turbo and the very different onset of torque I can get them to grip pretty much all the time unless I just mat it like a redneck with a warrant leaving a bar fight.

 

Good data point there @VoodooJef , thanks for sharing.

 

The other major variable is the surface. Adjusting loads to be at the limit of adhesion would be the end-all-be-all.... if you only drove on one surface. But since we're driving all over the place, no one setting will always be ideal. At a drag strip, for instance, you could adjust loads higher and still grip. In the rain, it's the opposite.

Additionally, when, and how quickly your boost comes on (particularly a function of turbo size) can be as, or more, influential than the ultimate torque level you're putting down, too.

The best compromise, in my opinion, is first to have decent tires, second to have the tune setup well for your car and driving habits/surface, and third, a driver mod: it's all about that right-foot control.

 

Vash is right. It comes down to tuning for the traction you have, which will degrade over time. My plan is to tune for my already worn and slippery RS3s, and run them for a while for testing, then swap in some new RS4s and go racing without having to worry about them wearing down and losing traction as a result (as I will already have compensated for lower traction in the tires from the start).

Food for thought.

 

Interesting idea. Applying it to a daily driver, one should tune their car when their tires are worn out, just before they replace them. So once they get the tires replaced, assuming the replacements are of the same type or better, the traction issue should also be resolved.

 

Yeah, that's one way to mitigate wheelspin. Another is to tune on something like ultra high performance tires, then get some max summer or extreme summer ones.