Alignment and handling talk

[VoodooJef]

In the next few weeks I`ll have my suspension pretty well dialed in, hardware-wise. Then it`ll be on to alignment. It`s a little low, on H&R, with Bilstein sport in the rear and Koni Yellow up front (JBR sway bars). Given that I`d like to do a little bit of road course events this year, I`ll be looking at alignment specs that are streetable with a nod toward handling performance. Something that`ll be predictable at speed and not dart around or wander.

Who out there has intentionally set their car up for non OEM spec handling purposes? What were your specs, and how did it handle on a daily basis?

 

[Mauro_Penguin]

What suspension are you dialing in, are the koni's adjustable?

Did you upgrade both sway bars or just the rear?

Camber will vary on suspension and roll, but for Toe on FWD people typically go slight toe out at the front, and zero toe at the rear.

 

[HawkeyeGeoff]

What suspension are you dialing in, are the koni's adjustable?

Did you upgrade both sway bars or just the rear?

Camber will vary on suspension and roll, but for Toe on FWD people typically go slight toe out at the front, and zero toe at the rear.

Front: -2.5° Camber, 1/16th toe IN (for high hp...or really anything over 350)
Rear: -2° Camber, neutral toe.

That is what I use for my alignment specs.

If you choose to do toe OUT in the front, your car will have better turn in feel but you will also wander significantly on any road that is not perfect. I choose to do toe in as I like the whole going straight thing when I mat it.

 

[PURPFOX]

That's good info i didn't think about. toe in for stability. I can imagine that -2.5 front camber is hell on tires though
I was thinking of trying -1.5f and -1r to help with tire life yet still be reasonable with handling

 

[HawkeyeGeoff]

That's good info i didn't think about. toe in for stability. I can imagine that -2.5 front camber is hell on tires though
I was thinking of trying -1.5f and -1r to help with tire life yet still be reasonable with handling

That will work just fine, though it will definitely not grip like a mad man through the twisties. For DD, you wont notice anything.

I run low treadwear tires anyway, so I'd rather just get the most out of it. Though different materials wear in different ways; we all know how the dunflops ate shit after 10k miles. I've run several different setups, anything -2.5° and below has seemed to be fine. Just my opinion on the topic.

 

[PURPFOX]

Nice,
and in the Harly world we agree that dunflops are just that, shit tire. i know currently my to is 0.0 and car wants to wonder all over when trying to pull logs. Ill try and get the toe bumped out and re-balance my camber. last shop wouldn't even try, so now to find another that will.

 

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Nice,
and in the Harly world we agree that dunflops are just that, shit tire. i know currently my to is 0.0 and car wants to wonder all over when trying to pull logs. Ill try and get the toe bumped out and re-balance my camber. last shop wouldn't even try, so now to find another that will.

toe in* if you have problems with wandering. Just ~1/16th of an inch will do just fine.

 

[VoodooJef]

Great info, thanks for participating!

Curious to see the tendency to wander under throttle at speed brought up. Mine does it, and it`s a little hairy sometimes. The shop did a good job of getting it as close to OEM spec as possible, but that`s obviously not ideal after a point. Headed to Texas Track Works in a couple of weeks to have them work some magic on it.

 

[PURPFOX]

Roops, right. Should have been IN not out
[doublepost=1486564522][/doublepost]right now with 0.0 toe front, if i pull a log i will fight like hell to keep it straight. its better now that i pulled the swas connector but still excessive.

 

[Redline]

Great info, thanks for participating!

Curious to see the tendency to wander under throttle at speed brought up. Mine does it, and it`s a little hairy sometimes. The shop did a good job of getting it as close to OEM spec as possible, but that`s obviously not ideal after a point. Headed to Texas Track Works in a couple of weeks to have them work some magic on it.

Texas Track Works is AMAZING and has done all of my alignment/suspension stuff, like we chatted about. And the fact they do track support virtually every weekend means you're in good hands - they know suspension setups backwards/forwards, esp. for competitive driving applications. If you haven't already, you should get the AC Delco rear adjustable camber arms (they're re-branded SPCs at a lower price). I forgot if you have them already?

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Also, I'm not sure if it was mentioned above, but on Speeds, having as much caster as possible is usually recommended.

 

[VoodooJef]

Texas Track Works is AMAZING and has done all of my alignment/suspension stuff, like we chatted about. And the fact they do track support virtually every weekend means you're in good hands - they know suspension setups backwards/forwards, esp. for competitive driving applications. If you haven't already, you should get the AC Delco rear adjustable camber arms (they're re-branded SPCs at a lower price). I forgot if you have them already?

Template public:_media_site_embed_amazon not found. Try rebuilding or reinstalling the s9e/MediaSites add-on.

Also, I'm not sure if it was mentioned above, but on Speeds, having as much caster as possible is usually recommended.

You sent me a link to the SPC arms at one point but I`ll be damned if I recall where LOL. And without caster plates I`m pretty much stuck with what I have until I get fickle with my suspension again.

 

[Redline]

You sent me a link to the SPC arms at one point but I`ll be damned if I recall where LOL. And without caster plates I`m pretty much stuck with what I have until I get fickle with my suspension again.

Yeah, you'll be limited on front camber/caster adjustment, but speaking from personal experience, there is some wiggle room for minor adjustments up front regarding caster and camber without camber plates.

 

[macdiesel]

I gained some camber when I swapped my front struts by pushing the strut mount inwards. I was surprised at how much play there was in the strut mount holes. I'd have to dig up some old alignment but it may have been a degree

 

[Quigs]

Texas Track Works is AMAZING and has done all of my alignment/suspension stuff, like we chatted about. And the fact they do track support virtually every weekend means you're in good hands - they know suspension setups backwards/forwards, esp. for competitive driving applications. If you haven't already, you should get the AC Delco rear adjustable camber arms (they're re-branded SPCs at a lower price). I forgot if you have them already?

Template public:_media_site_embed_amazon not found. Try rebuilding or reinstalling the s9e/MediaSites add-on.

Also, I'm not sure if it was mentioned above, but on Speeds, having as much caster as possible is usually recommended.

You sent me a link to the SPC arms at one point but I`ll be damned if I recall where LOL. And without caster plates I`m pretty much stuck with what I have until I get fickle with my suspension again.

The same arms are also branded as Mevotech and can be had from Rock Auto for $44 each. Just put them on a buddy's Speed this morning, they look and function EXACTLY like my ACDelco's (which said SPC on them.)

 

[Redline]

The same arms are also branded as Mevotech and can be had from Rock Auto for $44 each. Just put them on a buddy's Speed this morning, they look and function EXACTLY like my ACDelco's (which said SPC on them.)

Awesome info! So you saw that the castings have the same stampings, etc? Good to know.
[doublepost=1486875051][/doublepost]Something just occurred to me, @Quigs , are you sure the Mevotechs aren't the same arms but were flagged by QC for some reason and sold at a lower price under a known-cheaper brand name? You know, maybe minor flaws, but still deemed road-worthy?

 

[ibcrusn]

Here's some camber adjustment info that may be helpful.

I found an alternative camber plate setup from Silver Project while seeking more camber and adjustment for autocross. These are nice if you don't want to drop the coin on GC. They are out of the northern coast of Poland and make many different models. From my inspection they seem well made, fit well and has a fair amount adjustment for the average driver (-2* max). I've got close to 1,000 miles on mine and have had no issue and they adjust easily. One nice thing is their adjustment is not made through four allen head bolts that get hidden when set at max camber. With a little machining or grinding they can be cleaned up enough to fit under the existing strut tower structure which is nice for those that can't open up the size of the OEM hole due to class rules. For $160 (based on current exchange rate) and the ride to the US it's worth it, if memory serves I paid $170 and had them shipped locally in Poland so I don't know what you'd pay to have them shipped CONUS.

Silver Project Focus Mk2, Mazda 3 and various smaller Volvos



I do have to point out the bearings are designed for Ford springs (flat on top) and you'd have to swap out the bearing to the goofy Mazda one if you stayed with Mazda springs.



Although I haven't autocrossed with my new setup yet but I'm already scheming to design a new slotted main plate that will allow me up to -3* camber rather than just -2*. I spoke to the owner and he didn't seem too interested in creating a new plate or sharing the DXF file so I'm going to play around with CAD or learn Solidworks and machine out a new set at some point this season.

Disclosure: I'm just a happy customer, no freebies here. I also machined the nuts to sit lower in the sherical bearing and engage more threads on the shock shaft.

 

[Quigs]

Awesome info! So you saw that the castings have the same stampings, etc? Good to know.
[doublepost=1486875051][/doublepost]Something just occurred to me, @Quigs , are you sure the Mevotechs aren't the same arms but were flagged by QC for some reason and sold at a lower price under a known-cheaper brand name? You know, maybe minor flaws, but still deemed road-worthy?

Hmmm, I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I've used Mevotech branded parts on quite a few cars and have never seen or had any issues. I installed the Mevotech arms on my buddy's car yesterday and they fit perfectly and adjust perfectly exactly the same as my SPC/ACDelco ones. If there is some quality control issue then it is far from obvious..I tested the full range of motion on both of them before installing and there were no obvious flaws. They don't appear to have been made from any less amount of material either, they are definitely hefty like I remember mine being. I've also been told that the Moog arms are that same as well, but they are like $110 EACH. I have not had my hands on the Moog ones to confirm though.

 

[Redline]

Hmmm, I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I've used Mevotech branded parts on quite a few cars and have never seen or had any issues. I installed the Mevotech arms on my buddy's car yesterday and they fit perfectly and adjust perfectly exactly the same as my SPC/ACDelco ones. If there is some quality control issue then it is far from obvious..I tested the full range of motion on both of them before installing and there were no obvious flaws. They don't appear to have been made from any less amount of material either, they are definitely hefty like I remember mine being. I've also been told that the Moog arms are that same as well, but they are like $110 EACH. I have not had my hands on the Moog ones to confirm though.

Sounds good to me. On one hand, this is awesome info and a great replacement part to the AC Delcos. On the other, if they have that much room to lower price, they must have HUGE margins, and it makes me upset that they would charge so much more for the AC Delcos and SPCs, you know?

 

[Quigs]

Sounds good to me. On one hand, this is awesome info and a great replacement part to the AC Delcos. On the other, if they have that much room to lower price, they must have HUGE margins, and it makes me upset that they would charge so much more for the AC Delcos and SPCs, you know?

That's the power of marketing unfortunately.

 

[SharksInSpace]

I'm just here to ask why people insert full-sized pics instead of thumbnails.