Car died, cranks but no start

Rgurleyjr

Rgurleyjr

Greenie N00B Member
2008 Mazdaspeed 3. I got 3 gallons of gas, turned to get back on the highway, then engine stalled. When first trying to restart, for a split second it sounds like it wants to start, but doesn't and then just turns over and over.

Only DTCs are p0140, p0441, and p0446. Have had evap problems forever, putting gas in the tank takes forever ever since I bought it. Never caused drivability problems. Catless downpipe causing the p0140 I think.

I've had zero mechanical problems with this car, until today. Popped hood and didnt see anything obvious. I'm great working on cars but been a long time diagnosing a cranks but no start with no dtcs to research. I've heard of the possible vvt actuator, but been a while since I've looked into it. I'm getting the car towed tomorrow. Any idea where to start? In tank fuel pump?
 
You said you have had evap problems for a long time. You're saying that it takes a while to pump gas into the tank. That tells me you have 3 possible issues.

A clogged charcoal canister or pinched evap line
A stuck closed evap vent solenoid
A faulty fuel tank pressure sensor.

Remember that on Key Off the ECU will check to see a difference in fuel tank pressure. As you fill the tank and the fuel level rises the pressure changes. The ECU then tells the vent solenoid to open (if the pressure increases past X threshold) and it makes room for the fuel to come in. It also monitors tank pressure for the purge solenoid to be commanded for vapor circulation into the engine.

P0446 is for Evap vent system performance. The ECU is seeing there is a fault venting the pressure from the tank.

If you have access to compressed air and a blow gun, take the canister down and try blowing through it. It should be a fairly even amount of airflow through the canister. A smoke test would be better if you have access to that kind of equipment.

You can test the vent solenoid by removing it, and using jumper wires to turn it on and off or just use a Power Probe on the vent solenoid. It could be dirty and partially clogged to where it will vent but not all the way. 99 percent of the time they just fail and wont cycle.

I'm not sure if that will help your no start. I've seen purge solenoids fail wide open that causes rough running and lean codes but never one that actually pulled fuel from the tank.
 
L337TurboZ said:
You said you have had evap problems for a long time. You're saying that it takes a while to pump gas into the tank. That tells me you have 3 possible issues.

A clogged charcoal canister or pinched evap line
A stuck closed evap vent solenoid
A faulty fuel tank pressure sensor.

Remember that on Key Off the ECU will check to see a difference in fuel tank pressure. As you fill the tank and the fuel level rises the pressure changes. The ECU then tells the vent solenoid to open (if the pressure increases past X threshold) and it makes room for the fuel to come in. It also monitors tank pressure for the purge solenoid to be commanded for vapor circulation into the engine.

P0446 is for Evap vent system performance. The ECU is seeing there is a fault venting the pressure from the tank.

If you have access to compressed air and a blow gun, take the canister down and try blowing through it. It should be a fairly even amount of airflow through the canister. A smoke test would be better if you have access to that kind of equipment.

You can test the vent solenoid by removing it, and using jumper wires to turn it on and off or just use a Power Probe on the vent solenoid. It could be dirty and partially clogged to where it will vent but not all the way. 99 percent of the time they just fail and wont cycle.

I'm not sure if that will help your no start. I've seen purge solenoids fail wide open that causes rough running and lean codes but never one that actually pulled fuel from the tank.
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I looked into removing the canister a while back, but saw it was a big job. Shortly after, someone hit me and lied to the police, so I gave up trying to get it fixed as the car lost half its value from the accident. It's had the same fuel acceptance problem for a year, but never caused a no start or hesitation and so I dealt with it.

I don't have an access port, so I couldn't chk fuel pressure. I got it home, and it had power going to the hpfp. I unplugged the evap sol hose from engine side per the manual, no change. Looked around, saw nothing out of ordinary. Tried starting a few times, same thing. I unplugged egr valve. Tried starting once, no start but then tried a second time, car started. It now starts and runs completely normal.

My house is on a hill and once I take it for a drive, I wont be able to get it back in the garage if it dies again. I'm nervous because I'm not even sure unplugging the egr did it, at this point I don't know what to do. Hard to diagnose a no start when its now running.
 
Update. Started car again, ran but stalled. Would not restart. Checked codes and now got p0113 and p0091. Not sure about the iat sensor but the p0091 points to fuel pressure.

Unplugged battery, car restarted after a few seconds. I did put autotech internals in my original hpfp housing. I'll have to look at the manual to see where to start, but mainly in tank fuel pump, hpfp, or rail sensor? Been a while since I researched the fuel system. I don't know if I can get a fuel pressure gauge to chk the hpfp.
 
Update. After car wouldn't start, I tapped on top of tank fuel pump. Car started right up, then ran till I shut it off.

I decided to remove itfp. I tried to clean strainer, inspect everything, and chked the wires. Put it back together, car started and ran perfect. I took it for 2 short drives around block, probably ran 30 minutes, never died or anything.

My dilemma is what the problem was or is. Now its running great, and I want to drive it further. But I don't know exactly why it died and wouldn't restart it run long. Anyone experience this and have an idea what it could have been? Trash clogging the strainer? I'm confident it was with the itfp, but by tapping the top it started...idk what to think.
 
The in tank fuel pump is failing. It was bound up. When you tapped on the top it got it unstuck. You should replace it asap as you never know when it's going to fail again.
 
L337TurboZ said:
The in tank fuel pump is failing. It was bound up. When you tapped on the top it got it unstuck. You should replace it asap as you never know when it's going to fail again.
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I looked on autozone website and its $350 for just the pump! You know where the most affordable pump is sold? I'm not up to date on aftermarket ones, I'm trying to get the cheapest one as I'm selling the car.
 
OEM pump and filter... Don't be that guy that puts in a shit pump and it plauges the next owner replace the foam filter while you're in there
 
Either take the hit on the price of the car or tell the new owner what's going on with it. Putting a crap pump in just to sell it means you're screwing someone over and getting negative karma.
 
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