Clutch System Upgrades? MS3 vs MS6

Nitr0EngiE

Nitr0EngiE

Greenie N00B Member
Greenie Member
So some of this is speculation and some of it is based on personal experience as of lately with the car and past reads over the years. Until the other day I assumed there was no upgraded clutch line option for the MS3 and only the MS6 until i was doing my homework on clutches and I am still having bad clutch pedal issues (http://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/clutch-goes-soft-after-boost.2661/).

During my homework (I have Gen 1 MS3 2008 CWP) I found out that Clutch Masters does sell and make a upgraded SS clutch line that is a full replacement all the way from master to slave for close to 70$. This would replace both hard line sections and the soft line section which never made much sense. I was skeptical at first because since 2008 this is the very first time I have heard op such an option for the MS3.

I continued my homework and troubleshooting of my clutch issue and called Sped 6 performance to pick their brains about my problems and they confirmed that the clutch master SS clutch line for MS3 is in fact real and not a myth, but I was quickly put into unhappy mode when in the next breath he said do not use it. What don't use it you say?!?! WTF, I finally find something I have wanted for YEARS and then I hear don't use it, Shocking right?

Explanation: He said that when you replace the rubber section with the SS line that it takes away the flex and his master cylinder exploded using the hard line. I just replaced my master and the last fucking thing i ever need is it for one to explode and leak into my car or even the thought of having to replace it again, fuck the cost, the horrid process of getting it out and in is unspeakable..... I asked him Why does this occur and how does the MS6 have a full hard line without issues (A VERY GOOD QUESTION RIGHT!). When I got my answer it made total sense as he explained the Master on the MS6 is made of Steel/metal of some kind and cannot suffer the same explosion as the plastic MS3 Master....... FML

Ok so up until this point everything was experience and research, here comes the speculation and the direction I would like to take this. I guess i should follow up and ask:

-how many masters exploded and was it isolated to one occurrence?
-Is anyone else running this successfully or another SS line on MS3?
-What would it take to change our master to a steel one?
-Does it need to be upgraded? (to this I do not feel the hydraulic system is as robust as it should be for this car and I would personally like to be able to support a stiffer clutch without worrying if the master or slave is going to shit)

The MS6 seems to have a better hydraulic system with a steel master and capable of running a full hard line, but it has clutch pedal brackets that break and fail

The MS3 Does not have clutch pedal failure (bracket breaking), but apparently the hydraulic system is inferior and makes no sense as the MS6 was developed before the MS3 so why downgrade the system?

Anyone have pictures of a MS3 vs MS6 clutch pedal?

What would it take to bolt on a MS6 Clutch pedal with Master?

Are the connections on the master and slave the same between ms3 and ms6?

Sorry for the novel.....Ok I am over being sorry now discuss.
 
I'm interested in this. I have no engine in the car at the moment so now would be the time for me to upgrade these hydraulics.

EDIT:
I wonder if the 6 master could be retrofit to the 3...
 
That is kind of my thought, if the fittings are the same its fair game to try it, but looking at the pictures of the MS6 slave it does not seem to install in the same way or location which is why my next question would be are the bolt patterns for the pedal bracket close enough to fit or modify.
 
Wonder if there might even be just a drop in aftermarket option for the master...I would like to think that Mazda didn't just invent this shit specifically for the 3.
 
my other thought is that yes, rubber lines expand, but the ultimate force exerted to disengage the clutch should remain constant even if the line is flexing? And wouldn't a flexible line cause the Master to need to generate MORE pressure to do the same job on a flexible line vs a hard line that does not flex? this makes no sense that the master would explode as it should have to work less to do the same job with no flex? I am not willing to take a risk on it, but its mind blowing =/

EDIT: i guess flexibility does not require More pressure, rather More Volume .... at the same pressure and if too much volume the master would just run out of volume to push
 
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Can't you just replace a section of the premade hard line with stainless braided line?
 
I think his goal is to just get rid of all the bullshit in one fell swoop.
As for why the master explodes, it probably has to do with pressure spiking; a rubber section would absorb quite a bit of a pressure spike and/or bulge if you pushed the pedal in too far.
 
There is already a Full SS braided line available and that what was causing the master to explode, so if we can get a metal master with this new SS line then we would be in business.
 
Im sure mazda changed it for the same reason any car company does pretty much anything. Cost.

I would bet a supplier came to them with a part that would work and is cheaper, boom, no more metal.
 
Maisonvi said:
Im sure mazda changed it for the same reason any car company does pretty much anything. Cost.

I would bet a supplier came to them with a part that would work and is cheaper, boom, no more metal.
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yeah but they fucking charge 50% more for a MS3 master than a MS6 or they are about the same cost, so it makes no sense.

if I could get a ms6 pedal and weld it to a ms3 base then figure out how to attach the master then it could work, but the ms6 master dog legs to the left .... and I have no idea what the spacing or placement would have to be. bleh this is probably a lost cause for a broke ass like me.
 
Nitr0EngiE said:
yeah but they fucking charge 50% more for a MS3 master than a MS6 or they are about the same cost, so it makes no sense.

if I could get a ms6 pedal and weld it to a ms3 base then figure out how to attach the master then it could work, but the ms6 master dog legs to the left .... and I have no idea what the spacing or placement would have to be. bleh this is probably a lost cause for a broke ass like me.
Click to expand...

You are looking at the cost to you, not the cost to them. They are looking to sell it for whetever they can. So if they can sell a cheaper part for more, thats all profit.

Ive never looked into this at all though. I replaced my slave once and havent had an issue otherwise.
 
Sounds like the next step is to have an MS3 and MS6 master side by side to compare fittings, dimensions, and mounting points.
 
well everything is like the opposite, the MS6 has the push rod on the pedal itself where MS3 the push rod is built into the master itself and the MS6 master appears to mount to the firewall itself where the MS3 master mounts to the pedal assembly. everything is fucking opposite and done different, there would be ALLOT to modify to make this work.
 
I'm looking to nip potential future issues in the bud while it's easy to do so.
 
I did not realize the master was in the firewall when i first suggested this, we might have to look into other master options that could be mounted more like the ms3

the ss line would be good if I never put the pedal down to the floor and bust it, but I can't ever stop that from happening. I even kicked around the idea of coating a master in a hard resin like JB weld to prevent the shell from exploding. but i dont know if its the shell or the internal piston chamber that blows out
 
While not as common an issue as the MS6 the MS3 clutch pedal does break, mine did. It's a royal PITA to replace too.
 
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