Is p0012 a deal breaker

Carter Johnson

Carter Johnson

Greenie N00B Member
Greenie Member
Looking at a 2007 speed 6 that is 95% stock. It had the timing chain and components replaced before the current owner bought it. Car has had the p0012 code his entire ownership, and he has never had any issues with it. The recently replaced the vvt solenoid and changed the oil but the code came back. Chain has no slack, but that doesn’t convince me it’s not out of timing. The car is pretty much perfect otherwise but the plan is to daily drive it, and if this code is just a ticking time bomb I don’t really have the money to buy it and fix it at the same time. If the car has been driving fine for months is it safe? Or is it and catastrophic failure waiting to happen? Easy ways to check timing before purchasing? Any other possible causes?
About 20k miles since timing chain was done. The car is tuned for better fueling with fuel pump internals etc., could the tune cause the code like the previous owner told the current owner?
 
It's not the tune. Like raider said it's the timing being off or a bad or dirty sensor
 
Car was tuned at EFI which I have heard of probably a million times and I think is probably reputable. In the event that it’s the timing chain, what would that cost to have it retimed. With winter coming up I don’t really have the time or the space to retime it myself. The current owner has been very helpful and honest about everything with the car and is just as confused as me. I just don’t want to pass it up because for my area the car is pretty low miles compared to other options, and also has the tiniest bit of rust compared to the average other cars having mostly rotted fenders
 
How much would you be paying for the car? Also on your comment about not having money to buy it and fix it at the same time.

I hate to tell you this but ALL these cars need fixed at this point it's just a matter of what and when. Anyone buying a Speed at this point better budget in repair bills if they want to keep the car around for any reasonable amount of time.

As was mentioned there are a LOT of variables that could cause that code. It might be a bad/dirty sensor or the car might be out of time.

Am I reading this correctly that the current owner has put 20k miles on the car with this code present? o_O
 
Financially I was getting at the point that I’m laid off at the moment but this is pretty much my dream daily and I have a decent amount of savings to afford it comfortably but if it’s gonna cost 2 grand to get the timing chain done it’s probably not the best time for that. I just dug through some old saved listings on Facebook marketplace and funny enough found the original owners post which only had the car listed with 2-3k less miles than the current owner, and says it’s had “no issues”. Not sure how true that is but by that logic it’s only had it for about 2-3k miles. Both posters say that the timing chain was done around 20k miles ago so in reality if the timings off it’s been off for 22k miles

in my area that average rusted out 140k mile car sells anywhere from 7-9k. This car has about 105k miles and he was originally asking 7k for it, but considering we’ve deduced that it’s probably timing related that he could let it go for around 6. The car also had the turbo replaced with a new oem on, a new rear axle, radiator, front mount intercooler, and hpfp internals done all around the same time. Like I said, it’s tuned at a reputable shop and comes with a Cobb accessport v3

also comes with new lower control arms, and had a clutch installed about 20k miles ago like the rest, and is on h&r coil overs
 
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I would plan for full timing replacement as that is probably what is not right. And who knows of the damage during the time of driving it out of timing.

Metal Supporting Members here also get free vehicle history reports so until you get some history, assume it was hit so hard it knocked timing off, was flooded, repo'd or something.
 
Raider said:
I would plan for full timing replacement as that is probably what is not right. And who knows of the damage during the time of driving it out of timing.

Metal Supporting Members here also get free vehicle history reports so until you get some history, assume it was hit so hard it knocked timing off, was flooded, repo'd or something.
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It is allegedly a rebuilt title from 2008, but my current car is a rebuilt title and I’ve had zero issues with it so just being rebuilt doesn’t necessarily concern me as long as the proper stuff was done to repair it. That being said, if the accident was in 2008 and the timing chain replacement was 20k miles ago, they probably aren’t related. Does anybody know what it could cost to have it retimed? Current owner says the car drives and runs great, but we’ll see when I see it today
 
you would need to plug the accessport into the linked computer after taking the log and then download the log at which point you could copy the file to a flash drive.
 
The accessport shows no knock retardation at idle, so if timing was off causing the code, would that still be the case at idle? It seems to me a more sparatic code a sensor
 
Yes it'd still cause it idle, timing off does not equal knock.

Honestly mate I don't think this car is your daily, I think you need a beater while you make sure it's fixed up then you could daily it.

I'd want a compression and leak down test
 
A very wise member here once said the absolute best upgrade for your racecar is a reliable daily!
 
So I drove the car and it sounds, runs, and drives very healthy. Very responsive, gets right into the boost, holds it, and pulls hard. I did not see the accessport show any knock retard while driving it. I can probably get the guy to do a compression test etc., but I’m still a little confused. If the timing was off due to the timing chain it’s been off for like 22-23k miles. I imagine it would have zoom zoom boom boomed already, or at least show signs of major wear by now
 
Timing off isn't going to necessarily blow the motor right away. Plus if the timing is off it's likely because someone fucked up the friction washers and it's slipping a little bit every time it sees high rpm / high load. So getting worse until boom

If you haven't driven one of these before you could easily overestimate how hard it's pulling

You would not notice the knock retard looking at the display unless an alarm was set you would need a log to be certain

Honestly it sounds like you are just fishing to have one of us tell you it's probably fine go ahead and buy it. No one is going to tell you that. There is something wrong with the car and it could be a $20 fix a $2000 fix or an $8000 fix. Until you know what's wrong with it you shouldn't buy it. It's being sold because the current owner either can't figure it out or doesn't want to pay the money to fix what's wrong

I just reread the original post and saw that it was a speed 6. Disregard everything everyone has said. It is in no way suitable for daily driver duty without a Toyota backup car. It will be as reliable as a vintage British car and broken more days than not.
 
Easter Bunny said:
Timing off isn't going to necessarily blow the motor right away. Plus if the timing is off it's likely because someone fucked up the friction washers and it's slipping a little bit every time it sees high rpm / high load. So getting worse until boom

If you haven't driven one of these before you could easily overestimate how hard it's pulling

You would not notice the knock retard looking at the display unless an alarm was set you would need a log to be certain

Honestly it sounds like you are just fishing to have one of us tell you it's probably fine go ahead and buy it. No one is going to tell you that. There is something wrong with the car and it could be a $20 fix a $2000 fix or an $8000 fix. Until you know what's wrong with it you shouldn't buy it. It's being sold because the current owner either can't figure it out or doesn't want to pay the money to fix what's wrong

I just reread the original post and saw that it was a speed 6. Disregard everything everyone has said. It is in no way suitable for daily driver duty without a Toyota backup car. It will be as reliable as a vintage British car and broken more days than not.
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I’m not fishing for someone to say it’s a good idea to buy it, I’m asking legitimate questions about a topic I don’t know a lot about. And I’m not asking super open ended price quote questions like “what would it cost to fix it” I asked what would it cost to have the timing chain etc. done on the car assuming that was the issue. And I’m not suggesting it needs to be my daily immediately, and I don’t need a Toyota for reliability. A daily drive an Acura, and it’s given me no issues whatsoever. No reason to get in an attitude with me or talk down to me or accuse me of anything. I’m asking questions because aside from that code it’s pretty much the best condition and lowest mileage in my area. I’ve been looking for 2 years and nothing comes close. The whole point of a forum is to ask questions and get answers, not talk down to newer people looking to learn.

Mtnbker3531 said:
OP why do you even want to mess with a Speed if you have a Fire Chicken?
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As much as I love American cars, I have had my eyes on speed 6’s since looking for my first car. I understand they aren’t always the most reliable thing in the world but if they’re maintained well and treated well they can be decent enough. I live in Connecticut where we get a decent amount of snow in the winter, and awd would be a nice plus. I don’t need another weekend car, the 500hp my trans am puts down is enough to keep my occupied for the warmer weather. I’ve just always loved speed 6’s and my current daily is just a little underwhelming
 
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