Meth for cooling / cleaning.. and e85?

[automaticonlyspeed3]

So, noob here, bear with me lol.

I kicked the idea around about adding a meth kit.. Stock engine.. stock turbo. e85 right up the road from my house.. So why would i want a meth kit? (daily driver by the way)

-keep things a bit cooler..
-clean the valves a bit..

now for the questions..
-If im running e85, is running meth even a point? (not for fuel, but just for cooling)
-Are meth kits even worth all the effort? I saw people running cooling mist with other components.. I won't be dependent on it for fuel, no tuning, etc.. is it worth the effort?

- I live in florida, and it gets hot here.. I remember it discussed on the other forum about spraying it very early on by the intake to help lower ambient temps, but it didn't help.. can it help cool the boosted air early on at all? or it is basically right before it gets into the intake manifold? (so basically what e85 kinda does as far as cooling)

again, never ran a kit before.. I know i need to be super safe as far as leaking goes, so get a solid setup..

how hard is it to get it up and running? any regrets (edited)? anything that im missing or should know?

50/50 or 100 meth? (with fire extinguisher or water handy lol) prefered?

Thanks!!!

 

[Enki]

Past e30, you're (for the most part) knock proof. If on 50/50 mix or higher, the car likely won't even care what the outside temp is, so long as you have SOME kind of intercooling.

You won't be spraying enough meth to really clean anything, so you can get it for cool kid points if you like, but it WILL fuck with your tune.

I would run maybe 30% meth at the most, water cools much better than meth does, and spraying water generally doesn't fuck with your fueling nearly as much.

Keep in mind Florida is generally more humid, so evap cooling will be more difficult as the air won't be able to hold as much moisture.

 

[automaticonlyspeed3]

@Enki thank you for the advice! I guess its not really worth the effort since e85 is so convenient and on a k04.

I know that back in the day. STI and evo's had a intercooler spray system i think.. I was researching using my windshield wiper tank and filling it with ice water.. and spraying that on the intercooler.. but again, for the effort, i don't know if it really does that much.. For a track day, it makes sense, but for a Daily driver, not really.

 

[Enki]

On a stock TMIC it won't do much; not tested on a bar and plate one, but I'd imagine gains would be minimal unless you sprayed a TON, and then they'd be mediocre. The K04 is just too small to really make good use of anything like that, and on high mixes of e85, you barely need intercooling at all anyways.

 

[Jonb]

I live in SWFL and coincidentally I’m doing research on meth atm, which has led me here.

I was on CST4, CPe TMIC with a E25 tune, but just swapped out to a Mishimoto M line to switch things up for once in a long time.

Unfortunately I have not been able to start the revision tuning due to hearing a slight rattle on startup and then seeing very faint gouges on the top of the VC. Currently waiting until the middle of next week to see where I will be sourcing the timing kit from.

Also doing a FoST IM to help with longevity by addressing even flow.

Reason I am researching meth/water is because I can definitely tell the difference between summer performance and winter performance. It feels like a good 25hp drop when the BATs go up.

So instead of trying to push the proverbial envelope many others have pushed over the edge. And instead of reaching for more HP, just try and preserve the power I have under optimal conditions.

I was planning on spray meth/water to cool the BATs down to retain my winter performance levels year round and the slight cleaning effect. I don’t want to tune for it in the sense where the car will be relying on it for fueling whereas if for some reason it stops spraying during a pull, I’d be playing Russian roulette with the rods & rings.

So being limited to E25 atm due to injectors, my thinking is the above two reasons, and to have a little safe buffer with the increase in knock protection as it will knock some currently past 130°.

@Enki so you are saying that my rational is flawed due to the 100% humidity in the air down here?

 

[automaticonlyspeed3]

I live in SWFL and coincidentally I’m doing research on meth atm, which has led me here.

I was on CST4, CPe TMIC with a E25 tune, but just swapped out to a Mishimoto M line to switch things up for once in a long time.

Unfortunately I have not been able to start the revision tuning due to hearing a slight rattle on startup and then seeing very faint gouges on the top of the VC. Currently waiting until the middle of next week to see where I will be sourcing the timing kit from.

Also doing a FoST IM to help with longevity by addressing even flow.

Reason I am researching meth/water is because I can definitely tell the difference between summer performance and winter performance. It feels like a good 25hp drop when the BATs go up.

So instead of trying to push the proverbial envelope many others have pushed over the edge. And instead of reaching for more HP, just try and preserve the power I have under optimal conditions.

I was planning on spray meth/water to cool the BATs down to retain my winter performance levels year round and the slight cleaning effect. I don’t want to tune for it in the sense where the car will be relying on it for fueling whereas if for some reason it stops spraying during a pull, I’d be playing Russian roulette with the rods & rings.

So being limited to E25 atm due to injectors, my thinking is the above two reasons, and to have a little safe buffer with the increase in knock protection as it will knock some currently past 130°.

@Enki so you are saying that my rational is flawed due to the 100% humidity in the air down here?

I was somewhat asking the same thing, but I remember someone did some testing back in the day, and it didn't work out well..

Basically, cold air is more dense, so you would want to spray the Meth/water really early, but i think the turbo heated up the air somewhat defeating the point.. (maybe im totally wrong on this)..

you can use meth / water as a cooling, but e85 seems to take care of that..

unless im missing something, it seems like its not worth the effort on a k04.. maybe a big turbo without e85 then it could be but that is a different story.

 

[Enki]

...as it will knock some currently past 130°.

Then you aren't running enough corn. The whole point of running it at all is to get to the point where you're knock proof. (IMO anyways). Just upping the octane a little seems like a waste of effort, especially if you aren't 100% sure what the mix is coming out of the corn pump.

@Enki so you are saying that my rational is flawed due to the 100% humidity in the air down here?

The higher the humidity, the less water the air can hold. Kind of why evaporative cooling works really, REALLY well out here in the dry desert, but is basically unheard of in wetter climates. It just won't evaporate as much, even with ultra high temps coming out of the turbo.

Inversely, the problem with adding alcohols to the water is that you run into a situation where the amount of cooling you need to be fulfilled by fueling means you drown the engine in fuel. I have a lot of experience with this where I tried to bring BATs down using meth and wound up having to pull fuel in my map to compensate, which diverged sharply from my goal of just using it as a safety net. I wound up going to 50/50 WMI because it was easy to mix and still worked reasonably well when it was (rarely) humid out.

Plus there's other tuning considerations for spraying shitloads of water into the engine; you're replacing combustion with heat eating steam. There's a bunch of shit out there you can google on this though.

 

[Jonb]

Then you aren't running enough corn. The whole point of running it at all is to get to the point where you're knock proof. (IMO anyways). Just upping the octane a little seems like a waste of effort, especially if you aren't 100% sure what the mix is coming out of the corn pump.

Yes. I was able to run E33 on the K04, but of course after moving to the CST4 Justin stated that I am out of fueling headroom, leaving me at the E25 ceiling. So I guess since the swamp sucks Caitlyn Jenner’s balls, I am going to have to decide where to go from here. I am going to have to research about running E85 in an aux tank and 93 in the fuel tank/some sort of mix in the fuel tank and E85 in the aux tank to achieve a higher E mix, continuing with the meth plan sans the cooling fantasy, or other ways to keep BATs down.

I do have a failsafe that I have just been too lazy to hook up. Maybe it is time to hook that up and start using some sort of aux fueling to be able to keep winter performance year round. I just don’t want to live in the land of borrowed time and not be able to drive the car while I rebuild as it will be a while as I do spend a good amount of moneys on maintenance alone. I am starting to feel a wee bit white trash lol.

 

[Enki]

You should be able to use ~E30 and get close to if not right at 400 WHP. Might have to tune timing more aggressively, but I know it's possible.

 

[Jonb]

You should be able to use ~E30 and get close to if not right at 400 WHP. Might have to tune timing more aggressively, but I know it's possible.

Thank you. I’ll reach out and annoy Justin some more when I get done with my VVT and ready to continue my touch up tune

 

[Jonb]

You should be able to use ~E30 and get close to if not right at 400 WHP. Might have to tune timing more aggressively, but I know it's possible.

So I have been doing some more digging to try and see what else I can do with BATs. Has anyone tried volute spraying on our platform? Seems logical that you address the problem where it is at its hottest.

 

[Enki]

Yeah, sort of. (K04, EFR 6758 intake nozzle) Honestly not sure if it did much.