Omega's Bad Idea Build Thread

Omega

Omega

Greenie N00B Member
Greenie Member
Time for my bad idea build - let's take a MS6 with 30k miles on a 2nd motor (first was known bad when bought) and put a BT on it! Trying to make more power than a corn fed K04 (feels too slow now!) with a corn fed GTX3071 Gen 2. Hoping E85 will keep the rings intact for a bit until the motor build - I'll daily it until it doesn't anymore!

This build will be mainly built for response with good top-end and power under the curve without the EFR expense and option to adjust turbine housings/turbos in the future. Hoping to maximize ring land life with equal cylinder flow (EM/IM replace) and e85. 20k miles of corn fed k04 and my motor feels great with no issues, so we'll hope e85 can keep it up a while longer.

Later will be moving to a built motor eventually probably with a .82A/R housing for ~500WHP in ~3years. Trying to get ~375-400whp on E30 without aux, we'll see how close it does or doesn't get! Pics to come and I'll be throwing this on a mustang dyno before and after as well. Bye bye factory block!

Parts for BT going in:
GTX3071 Gen 2 .63 A/R Tial EWG housing
CP-E LRTManifold & Re-Route Downpipe (I only like my women screaming)
JBR Tru 3.5" intake
CS 3.5 Bar MAP & CS EBCS
51R Battery Box - One day will move to a lithium battery
CS Intake Mani (when avail again)
CS Throttle Body
Tial MVR

Current Parts that will continue to be used:
CS BPV (yay wave spring)
CS FMIC
DM OCC VTA
Magnaflow CBE

Other Misc. Parts already:
H&R Coilovers
Diff Mounts
CS Tranny (hehe) insert
RMM
Whiteline Swaybar/new factory end-links
DM Power Steering Cooler Kit
 
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Looks like a solid plan and that HP/TQ should be achievable on e30. Spray some meth for good times too.
 
Meh I'll probably skip meth in favor of 6th port for reliability/fueling, if I were to use meth it'd probably be for cooling purposes only. Need to upload some pictures of the sexy ass tial hotside and the MVR valve :sunglasses:
 
I made what you're looking to make with an EFR 6758 and E30. Definitely doable. It isn't unreliable or anything either. I DD'd it for a long time like that. Currently building for me with a 7163. Keep the TQ below 400 and it'll last for a long time.
 
Yeah, my buddy has been running around on a GTX3071 for a while as well on stock block. I'm hoping it'll last a good while before building at least a year or two (shoud be no problem to make it ~24,000miles)
 
I'm a masochist and decided to add a 2nd MS6 in WWP to the stable for a little bit. Picture to come - came with a ridiculous amount of money poured into it for the price I paid...
 

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Time to get the new turd back into shape - previous owner had left several issues with the swap of parts (built bottom end, CS big turbo, FMIC etc). So far -- bad plug blowout during WOT - new plugs going in today I don't think they were originally replaced, or they were and weren't gapped.

Mysterious noise from front end was unknown and thought to be a bushing or something somewhere - nope just a strut that's not tightened down flopping around like donkey dick.

Also was running a COBB OTS stage 3 93 tune, I've since created my own base map to start tuning with that would be much safter than some cobb OTS for k04.

Ordered a new cooling res cap today - as it currently only has painters tape and a return hose going into the tank >_<

Last thing that *really* needs to be done is find this power steering leak, probably need to replace the hoses which isn't bad (I have a DM power steering kit on my other 6). I would normally do a fluid change on the tranny/pto/rear end buuuut since this is going to be flipped - I'll probably leave it - transmission is notchy as shit though.

I also need to re-route the EBCS from bleed to interrupt - why install an EBCS and run the shit in bleed with a BT?
 
Omega said:
Time to get the new turd back into shape - previous owner had left several issues with the swap of parts (built bottom end, CS big turbo, FMIC etc). So far -- bad plug blowout during WOT - new plugs going in today I don't think they were originally replaced, or they were and weren't gapped.

Mysterious noise from front end was unknown and thought to be a bushing or something somewhere - nope just a strut that's not tightened down flopping around like donkey dick.

Also was running a COBB OTS stage 3 93 tune, I've since created my own base map to start tuning with that would be much safter than some cobb OTS for k04.

Ordered a new cooling res cap today - as it currently only has painters tape and a return hose going into the tank >_<

Last thing that *really* needs to be done is find this power steering leak, probably need to replace the hoses which isn't bad (I have a DM power steering kit on my other 6). I would normally do a fluid change on the tranny/pto/rear end buuuut since this is going to be flipped - I'll probably leave it - transmission is notchy as shit though.

I also need to re-route the EBCS from bleed to interrupt - why install an EBCS and run the shit in bleed with a BT?
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WOW , lol, car probably would have been solid if they cared for it at all or even knew how to use google.
 
Haha, you guys see what I was thinking xD -- he was a good guy but probably didn't have enough time or the means to fix it himself. So today I spent 2 hours on the car, I actually kept the OTS tune on there for now (because no fucks given forged motor). I needed to change as few variables as possible to make sure everything was good after my plug swap & before going to the base map I created (one variable at a time).

High RPM Breakup - well that was obviously misfiring gaps on plugs measured greater than .035 (highest my feelers will go LOL) on stock heat range plugs. I threw in a set of NGK iridiums 1 range colder than stock gapped at .028 - before the car couldn't WOT without bucking, now I'm spinning tires (snow tires came installed) in 2nd, 3rd AND 4th gear. My neighbor shit a brick that I swapped plugs in 30 minutes including gapping the new ones and teaching him in the process.

Plugs looked like SHIT - motor was built 3k miles ago but old plugs got used -- probably had at least 10k on them. Minimal oil in cylinder 4 only on plug threads, will need to check later to see if there's still blow by. I found an assortment of 3-4 coolant hose couplers and worm clamps between the coils of cylinder 3 and 4 (WTF?!) haha, removed those obviously. 2 of the plugs had cracked ceramic insulators - obviously not good.

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The loose coilover/strut on the front driver side that they thought was a bad bushing ETC - well I tightened it up in 5 minutes and all is good. Shit handles FANTASTIC now (other than the power steering pump wailing in misery due to whatever leak it has). I spun the snow tires on a 4th gear pull and triggered the 4wd light to flash at me for a minute... No more WOT pulls until I can get some tires so I don't blow shit up in the AWD components.

Today was a very fucking productive day and now the car feels brand new - it still has an exhaust leak I need to sort out at the DP-Catback connection and power steering hoses need to be replaced (I don't feel like fucking doing that). Bumper cover is also missing a passenger side screw - I'll need to go screw that back in - no biggie at least. This is a fun little project while my BCM MS6 is in the body shop getting it's bumper/fender fixed. I thought the exterior was rough, but my neighbors keep telling me it looks brand new/fantastic so I think I'm going to up my end selling price by a thousand lol.
 

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Another problem solved for the car today - decided to do something quick that didn't take a huge time commitment so I fixed the headlights since they looked like garbage. I love making headlights look brand new - so easy and everyone flips their shit with the results. Was teaching my neighbor how to do it again today, he loves doing DIY stuff but is too afraid to touch his car (but not is house, wtf? lol).
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Omega said:
Another problem solved for the car today - decided to do something quick that didn't take a huge time commitment so I fixed the headlights since they looked like garbage. I love making headlights look brand new - so easy and everyone flips their shit with the results. Was teaching my neighbor how to do it again today, he loves doing DIY stuff but is too afraid to touch his car (but not is house, wtf? lol).
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What's your headlight restore method?
 
Wet sanding - 1000 Grit (horizontal) followed by 3000 grit (vertical) then polishing with a hand drill.

This is one of the best kits on the market IMO: http://www.meguiars.com/en/automotive/products/g3000-heavy-duty-headlight-restoration-kit/ although the part number has changed. I used these for a very long time - just make sure you cover it with vinyl or clear coat if you want it to last. I've used the lamin-x films on my headlights and offer fantastic UV/Rock protection.
 
New tires incoming will be ordering them today - replacing with federal ss595's because one new one is already on there (need to measure tread depth first to make sure it wasn't used) and cheap.

This weekend is set to address the power steering leak, I got under the car but EVERYTHING is covered in oil (from when the guy test driving left dip stick out). So I need to wipe everything down and get a good idea of where the leak is coming from. Pretty sure it's coming from where the hard line meets the first rubber hose coming off the bottom of the PS pump, at least that's where the most accumulation seemed to be. Will clean it up and find out this weekend, probably will replace all the rubber hosing, I have a spare hard line if cracked. If tires come in time will have them on this weekend too - hope that happens so I can do some pulls.
 
Did you already order the turbine housing? If not I would recommend a 0.82 over the 0.64. You will kill your top end with the 0.64 from what I've seen and the 0.82 shouldn't affect low end response all that much.
 
I went with .64 - There's really no information at all on .64 on the MS forums .82 should increase lag by about 300RPM to increase top end by about 30-40whp. Seeing as how my current goal before building is 400whp - .64 is plenty sufficient for now. The factory flanged ATP hotside is .55 and hits ~500whp so .64 should support more than that flow up top. I plan to dyno (need to find another dyno, the other shop's broke) both if/when the time comes to change to .82. .82 supports an extra 3-4lbs/min turbine flow - so for the extra 30-40 HP I won't' use, the extra response is where it's at for now.

Tons of data on the subie 2.5's people are hitting 500whp on the GTX3071 Gen1 w/ tial .64 housings - we should be able to get very close to 500 on that housing (especially gen 2). However they did note huge drops in responsiveness going to .82 both from transient response as well as 300rpm's more turbo lag when building boost. Everyone who went .82 for the extra few ponies ALL ended up regretting it - they had a much larger sample base than I could find via MSF/MSO.
 
If response is your goal, I don't know why you wouldn't go with a GTX2867. Easily will max out the stock fuel system and would spool significantly earlier than the GTX3071. Even the Gen1 2867 was good for 450 whp. The Gen2 is supposedly even better.

The EJ25 is not a good comparison IMO. Much shorter stroke, compromised header design. No matter what you do with those engines, the turbo is never going to spool as well as on an MZR. I bet the difference between those housings would be much smaller on the MZR.
 
Did you read the goals & methodology?

2867 won't hit 450WHP without busting it's ass and being on the ragged edge of efficiency especially when factoring in AWD not to mention won't hit 500whp like I'm looking to do when I build the block. Second, I specifically stated WHY I have a gtx3071 - cooler air charge - more efficient in the range I'm using it to keep rings alive before build and to hit 400whp w/o aux (won't come close on a 2867 due to efficiency). Why would I want to limit myself to a 2867 to change it out later when the same can be done with a hotside swap?

Also the difference between a 2867 and 3071 spool is pretty minor in terms of boost threshold not to mention the gen2 will spool about 100-200rpm's sooner than gen 1 due to a lower surge line - making it spool even MORE like a 2867. Plus on stock block I have to limit torque down low anyway, so the 2867 won't give me anything more usable than a 3071 (which can hit full spool ~3-3400RPM's). Obviously there's a good middle ground to satisfy or I'd be stuck on a K04.

Header design doesn't matter when you don't use a header - now when talking exhaust manifolds it STILL doesn't matter when it's completely aftermarket. I'm still comparing a 2.3L vs a 2.5L equal length headers (aftermarket on both), by the way we use UEL headers just like subby does stock so it's STILL a fair comparison if we talk stock header types.

Mass flow spins the turbine, not anything else, bore vs stroke is just a different way to get to displacement/flow. None of that really matters as much as displacement due to mass flow, stroke is just a different way to get there and addresses torque delivery differently.
 
So the car turdwich 2.0 saga continues today. Power steering pump is leaking in one of two places, definitely leaking where the o-ring meets the pump and new x ring on order from mcmaster carr. I'm not sure the PS pump even has an o ring where it meets the res because it's floppity as fuck, wiggling the pump around (moves about .5") causes fluid to seep. The high pressure line is suspect as well but I don't think it's a problem - it was just dangling with no support and flopping about - so I secured it with some zip ties. After doing this I haven't noticed much fluid leaking, so it could've been putting pressure on the pump or fittings causing the seep, will continue to monitor.

Looked at the exhaust leak today, flange angle from racepipe to CBE looks odd leaving a pretty large gap up top, the RP must not be CP-E. Although that aside the top half of the gasket has rusted and fallen out so very obviously leaking. New gasket on order for that as well, easy fix.

I ended up detailing the engine bay today to get rid of the thick coating of oil that was EVERYWHERE due to the dip stick incident before I bought it. Hosed the fuck out of the engine bay today and blasted the alternator for a while as it had oil coked up literally blocking the cooling vanes. Engine bay looks SOOO much better it's just a plus that I didn't find anymore leaking PS fluid yet, no more oily residue anywhere.

I have tires on order but then I got a backorder notification - can't do much until I get that done, I took the car out today and did some pulls, she feels great. Once the tires come in I'll start tuning but so far the car is cleaning up very nicely and I'm almost done fixing all of it's issues.

On another note my other MS6 (the not so turdy one) is done at the body shop but waiting insurance paperwork to be released. Can't wait to get it back! My CPE Exhaust Manifold and DP are supposed to ship sometime this coming week so we'll see if that stays on schedule. Once that comes in I'm going to swap some cosmetic parts to mine at some point.

I also ordered new coolant parts last week which I plan on putting on my car (for reliability) and putting my cars old coolant hoses/coolant caps etc that this car is currently missing (they're still in amazing shape).
 
Turdwich 2.0 - Still waiting on tires (FML - of course they're on backorder). Found some local wheel/tires I may pick up for $400 with genpu wheels.

Purple Beast (My MS6) - Back in hand finally from the body shop, looks pretty good. Color match looks close except in low light, will need to detail the car to see if it's the same. They fucked up my hood latch (missing a bolt) so I'm waiting for them to order parts and fix because fuck them for not doing it right the first time.

Purple Beast:

All parts in hand except for CP-E Mani and DP.
Just ordered a braille 21lb to throw in a 51R battery tray, better cranking capacity and Ah (I know I know Deka, but supposedly the batteries are binned so braille's get the higher quality batteries). Just wanted to save 8lbs over the standard 51R at the same price. Waiting until some time next year and I'll buy a high capacity lithium probably but today for $700 I'm not in for it. Once the hood latch gets fixed I'll throw this in for preparation to go BT.
 
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