2013 MazdaSpeed 3 P0171

Mtnbker3531

Mtnbker3531

Greenie N00B Member
2013 MazdaSpeed3
152,000 Mi
Chicago, IL
P0171
Same
Cobb AP
PD Tuning
No
Yes

Recent repairs, Installed 3.5 inch JBR intake, BNR S3 turbo, 3 BAR Map sensor and a Stage 2 Damond catch can that is VTA.

I got the car back up and running yesterday after all this work and everything seemed fine, took it for a short drive taking it easy and not getting into boost and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Shut the car off and then restarted it in the garage and saw the CEL.

Checked and saw it was P0171 Bank 1 Lean. At that point I remembered that I may had not tightened on of my clamps on the charge pipe from the TB to intercooler and I was correct so I tightened that up. Reset CEL and took the car out for another drive this time driving a bit harder and hitting WOT a few times. Drove about 4 miles and no real issues other than it felt a little choppy during lower speed decel but I attributed that to no having driven the car in 5 weeks and just not being familiar with how it felt.

Came home shut the car off for about 30 mins and then decided to take it back out, started the car again and same CEL is back. I really need to read up on fuel trims and trying to trouble shoot this. I have already cleaned my MAF and there was no effect of STFT which is sitting at 25 while idling. Unmetered air entering the system is the most obvious.

The VTA catch can is routed directly to and from the PCV plate. I was advised this routing method would not introduce unmetered air into the system. Is this a possibility.

Images attached of snapshot data using FORSCAN.


2.png 1.png
 
No, it did not come with one. The stage one can does have one and It makes sense because it runs between the PCV plate and the intake manifold. So if it wasn't there you could obviously introduce boost to your crankcase which I sure would be exciting!

This second can which is VTA just runs straight from the PCV plate to the can and straight back to the PCV plate.

I am running this exact setup for both cans.

Edit:

Well I think I have found my issue. I missed a clamp on my evap line at the firewall right under the fuel line. The hose isn't even seated all the way and the clamp is missing. I remember moving it out of the way to get the turbo out and back in.

Probably be a couple days before I can get to it as I have to fix the oven now o_O It decided to shit the bed in the middle of cooking dinner tonight. Heard a LOUD pop from the oven and it tripped the breaker. Reset the breaker verified I have power and oven doesn't work at all. So I get to dig into that tomorrow :mad:

PCV Routing.jpg
 
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Well that was not my issue. STFT sits at 25 at idle still and car seems to have a very mild stumble at light/moderate throttle while driving. Most obvious is a leak.

Next step build myself a boost leak tester and a smoke machine to hook up to my air compressor and see what's up. After that figure out how to troubleshoot my MAF and primary 02 to see if they are defective if I'm unsuccessful with smoke.

I'll keep it simple first, I'm probably getting air in somewhere past my MAF.

On a positive note the oven is fixed, that was a real treat! o_O
 
Well this is getting to be a pain in the ass. I smoke tested the car the other day and found a failed vac line running from my EBCS to the boost source on the turbo. So I fix that and think I've figured out my problem and the car still exhibits the same symptoms.

So I put smoke on it again and can't find anything this time. So I start checking things and tugging on lines and the vac line going to the wastegate actuator splits. So I ordered some heavy duty silicone vac line and I just replaced all the vac line running to and from the EBCS.

Just started the car and it slowly climbs back to plus 25 at idle and sits there. I don't want to just start throwing parts at the car I need to figure out the issue.

I did verify the second catch can does have a check valve in it as I talked to Damond about it and I was able to observe it operate when I was smoke testing which was cool.

I need to read up on how to verify my MAF and primary 02 are functioning correctly.

I may just throw in the towel and take it to the shop I used for the motor but I really want to figure this out as I have a feeling it's going to be something stupid.
 
Hope this isn't a dumb question for you - but did you tune after installing the 3.5 intake? Also where did you pipe smoke in from during your test? I had an air leak issue and the ECU shot my STFT to 25 as well to compensate for the extra air with a very rough idle and lean AFR while at idle - I think around 17 or so. I did a smoke test from the small hose that goes from the intake to the manifold, injecting toward the manifold. My leak was under the VTSC - there is little rubber seal that popped out that sits on the valve cover and connects to the VTSC.
 
It's on a basemap from my tuner so yes the 3.5 intake, 3 BAR MAP and S3 as well at DP are accounted for.

Smoke went right into the intake where the air filter would attach. I did that with the breather tube from the intake to the top of the valve cover pinched off and not pinched off.

I had the car brought over to the shop that built my motor. I know he will find it and fix whatever the issue is and I can get back to enjoying this thing an more importantly tuning this turbo!
 
Well car is still not fixed!

So we replaced the MAF with a Denso unit, the Primary 02 has been replaced with a NTK/NGK unit and the EGR valve has been replaced with new OEM EGR. They did find a leak in the EGR with smoke testing which prompted the replacement of that. Everything on the intake side has been tested for leaks via introducing smoke into the intake and at this point no leaks can be found.

Boost control solenoid and BPV have also been swapped with known good units just to eliminate that possibility even though both my BPV and EBCS are about a 18 months old. My second catch can has also been isolated from testing to eliminate that but nothing indicates its an issue.

We have also tried reflashing the tune to see if perhaps the ECU was stuck for some reason.

Only thing left to do is introduce smoke into the exhaust side of the equation to see if my DP has a leak that could be allowing the 02 to see more 02 than it should.

I have left my tuner a VM and sent an email with all the details of this and asking to verify the parameters of my basemap. I would strongly doubt there is an error there but maybe I didn't communicate my setup effectively enough or something was missed.

I cant help but feel this is something basic as we have a lean condition but it is being VERY elusive.

LFFT is basically stuck at 25 and STFT hover 5-9. He did say the LTFT will climb to 30 with the AC running.

If anyone has any input or suggestions or any experience with a difficult situation like this I'd love some ideas.

@Enki @Easter Bunny @L337TurboZ @jsmith @Awafrican
 
Has the MAF been recalibrated again or at least have the data double checked? If there was an old issue with the MAF and you have a new one maybe it's not fully correct?

One suggestion is to tape a fuel pressure gauge to the windshield and monitor fuel pressure into the HPFP when the issue occurs. If the factory pump is randomly weak and/or sucking up junk from the tank due to a bad filter sock you can have an intermittent lean issue.

The fact that it happens with the AC on indicates it is probably something that is just off base idle. Have you tried to spray brake clean or something along stuff while the issue occurs? Doel the fuel trims begin to creep back to normal during non AC operation?
 
I appreciate you responding 337, I'll have to ask about some of the things you've mentioned tomorrow.

The guy working on this is a very experienced tech who worked at Mazda for a long time. He also owns 2 modded Speeds so he's very familiar with the platform. There are constantly Speeds being worked on at this place as he has got a rep in the area for being Speed friendly. That being said nobody is perfect and he's on the same page as me with the more brains involved the better provided they are smart

As far as the in tank fuel pump it was replaced back in Aug of 2020 with a DW300c and the filter sock was replaced at that time as well.

I did install an Innovate Ethanol content sensor with all these other mods. I made a custom fuel line that runs from the hardline at the firewall through the Sensor and to the HPFP.

I built it all from 3/8 PTFE Braided fuel line and used all AN6 fittings. It did cross my paranoid mind something could have gone wrong there. I can't imagine that would cause a restriction since the stock line is smaller than what I made my fuel line with. My tech doesn't feel there's any issues with fuel volume or pressure.

I would also really like to get my tuners input on this because of that intake/MAF is causing an issue I'm sure he'll be able to tell from a log.
 
Enki, I haven't sent a log to the tuner yet documenting this issue as I haven't heard back yet.

I will be at the shop tomorrow for a Cars and Coffee I'm sure I could get an idle log or any other RPM if you want. Let me know and thanks for your reply!
 
Heard back from tuner this morning and explained everything.

Told me he isn't worried and I've done everything he would have asked to ensure the car is mechanically sound. Told me to pick up the car from the shop and follow his instructions and send him the logs he needs from my basemap.

Enki, thanks for offering to check logs for me I really appreciate it. Thanks to everyone else who has responded with suggestions to resolve this.

I'll update with further results/info, I'm looking at this as a learning experience!
 
Enki said:
It's probably just off on the calibration.
Click to expand...
That's what pretty much what Will said. He called me back this morning on the way to Cars and Coffee and was super cool on the phone. I've had a great experience tuning with him.

On a side note Matt from Damond was there and I spend a bit of time chatting with him. Had nothing but great experiences with him too!
 
Well I picked up the car and took it for a drive per my tuners instructions. Drove it 20 miles then proceeded with all my base map logs. Only place where car feels weird is light throttle no boost it stumbles a bit. Feels good at low boost and didnt break up on the WOT pulls or do anything funky for the MAF cal runs.

P0171 did return after I shut the car off to get gas while I was putting on the 20 miles. Upon returning home having driven a total of about 37 miles i figured I'd better check for codes again and now I have a P0089 along with the P0171. I'm going to submit my logs and see what Will says but it seems I have some other mechanical issue to deal with that I need to learn about.

So I also decided to conduct the KOEO PRV test in the garage just a bit ago when I got back from all this driving and seeing the P0089. I didn't see the typical climb in fuel pressure at all. I shut the car off and pressure just continued to drop form about the mid 400s where it was at idle when I shut the car off. So either I'm doing something wrong or there is something wrong.
 
Thanks Enki, yeah I knew you had to do it on a hot engine as that's the mechanism for expansion as you mentioned. I did this after it had been driven for 35-40 miles. Maybe it sat in the garage a little too long but the motor was pretty hot still. Perhaps I didn't understand how hot.

So I checked for DTCs with the AP again before I sent my email to Will and the P0089 is gone. I also scanned with FORSCAN as it give a lot more detail and there is nothing about P0089 at all. P0171 is still present as expected though, I'll just wait for the next revision and see what Will advises.
 
Do the fuel pressure test again if it's not passing you have a major problem that needs to be remedied
 
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