4032 Alloy Pistons for 500whp?

Redline said:
The general rule of thumb is that WOT knock under 2.0 is of no consequence, and that's on stock pistons. Personally, I like staying below 1, but I'm just super-careful. Fortunately, with all the alky going through my engine, it's not at all an issue. All I have is the characteristic (and totally normal) throttle tip-in knock. The durability to knock would likely be higher on 4032s and especially 2618s. But with enough alky and a solid tune, it's a moot point. You won't have knock unless something mechanical is going on, and if that's the case, you've got potentially much bigger fish to fry.
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Yea, pretty much what I figured. I'll try to keep you posted. There are actually 3 local ms6 guys who will be running them. One of the guys should have his motor back in the next week or so, but he is still debating which turbo he'll be running. I'm currently running a 3071 that I'll be squeezing out every bit of power possible, but may try to pick up a 3076 because easy swap and should help hit 500... Hopefully.
 
Bearded Jersey Devil said:
Yea, pretty much what I figured. I'll try to keep you posted. There are actually 3 local ms6 guys who will be running them. One of the guys should have his motor back in the next week or so, but he is still debating which turbo he'll be running. I'm currently running a 3071 that I'll be squeezing out every bit of power possible, but may try to pick up a 3076 because easy swap and should help hit 500... Hopefully.
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Awesome! Please keep us posted about how the 4032s treat you guys. There's no replacement for practical experience, you know? BTW, a GTX3071r should be able to hit 500whp with proper supporting mods. A regular GT3071r, likely not, IMHO. Now a regular GT3076r may be able to as well, but it could be close. It'll require about 55 lbs/min of flow or so. Check this out for reference:
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=40727288
 
Redline said:
Awesome! Please keep us posted about how the 4032s treat you guys. There's no replacement for practical experience, you know? BTW, a GTX3071r should be able to hit 500whp with proper supporting mods. A regular GT3071r, likely not, IMHO. Now a regular GT3076r may be able to as well, but it could be close. It'll require about 55 lbs/min of flow or so. Check this out for reference:
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=40727288
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Will do! I am running the gtx and I'd be very pleased if that got me close, but I was under the impression that it will be closer to the 450 mark on a ms6. I can't say that I've seen anyone making near 500 with that turbo, but that may be because most people choose to just run a larger turbo from the get go. I guess I'll see what it'll do with the help of two extra 1000cc injectors and some E!
 
Bearded Jersey Devil said:
Will do! I am running the gtx and I'd be very pleased if that got me close, but I was under the impression that it will be closer to the 450 mark on a ms6. I can't say that I've seen anyone making near 500 with that turbo, but that may be because most people choose to just run a larger turbo from the get go. I guess I'll see what it'll do with the help of two extra 1000cc injectors and some E!
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Yeah, I was referring to FWD drivetrain losses; it'll definitely take more with AWD drivetrain losses. You may need 57-58lbs/min in that case.
 
Redline said:
Yeah, I was referring to FWD drivetrain losses; it'll definitely take more with AWD drivetrain losses. You may need 57-58lbs/min in that case.
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Yeaaa that's why I'll eventually snag a 3076 and hope that gets me there. It's cheap and will be an easy swap, rather than a 5858.
 
4032 will be fine for 500hp. The 425 number is to cover their asses.

No piston should experience piston slap regardless of material. If you hear piston slap on a low mileage build it wasn't machined properly. Whether you run alcohol or not will not bear any large effects on piston life. It all comes down to proper machine work. The advantage to 4032 is that it expands less than 2618, allowing a tighter PWC. It's because of this tighter clearance that there is less wear (more PWC = more wall wear). It's the same reason OE pistons last so long, because they run much tighter PWC. Another differing factor is design as well. Forged pistons almost always have larger ring lands and this aids strength tremendously. Hell, if the stock pistons had thicker lands they'd probably survive at 500hp. Lastly, don't forget or discredit coatings. Today's coating technology is leaps and bounds better than what was around 5 or 10 years ago. A 2618 piston with a good skirt coating can last as long or longer than an uncoated 4032 piston.
 
AYOUSTIN said:
4032 will be fine for 500hp. The 425 number is to cover their asses.

No piston should experience piston slap regardless of material. If you hear piston slap on a low mileage build it wasn't machined properly. Whether you run alcohol or not will not bear any large effects on piston life. It all comes down to proper machine work. The advantage to 4032 is that it expands less than 2618, allowing a tighter PWC. It's because of this tighter clearance that there is less wear (more PWC = more wall wear). It's the same reason OE pistons last so long, because they run much tighter PWC. Another differing factor is design as well. Forged pistons almost always have larger ring lands and this aids strength tremendously. Hell, if the stock pistons had thicker lands they'd probably survive at 500hp. Lastly, don't forget or discredit coatings. Today's coating technology is leaps and bounds better than what was around 5 or 10 years ago. A 2618 piston with a good skirt coating can last as long or longer than an uncoated 4032 piston.
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I agree. I trust the Mahle piston engineer. I've always heard about 2618 motors being louder, though. I know it's a subjective thing, but it is very frequently said, even with excellent machining (no intense slap).

Regarding coatings, that's interesting. Any articles/data on these coatings showing the longer service life on 2618s over 4032s that are bare?
 
Redline said:
I agree. I trust the Mahle piston engineer. I've always heard about 2618 motors being louder, though. I know it's a subjective thing, but it is very frequently said, even with excellent machining (no intense slap).

Regarding coatings, that's interesting. Any articles/data on these coatings showing the longer service life on 2618s over 4032s that are bare?
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I don't have any articles, just information from talking with guys in the industry and information that they've shown me.
 
AYOUSTIN said:
I don't have any articles, just information from talking with guys in the industry and information that they've shown me.
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Cool deal. That's good info. I did a lot of general study on the alloys at first. Then, I wrote SP63 and the Mahle engineer who made these 4032s and went by what they said. I had a good phone chat with the guy at Mahle too. If 2618s + coating can rival 4032s longevity, then I can only imagine what 4032s + coating would do. I may ask the Mahle engineer about that.
 
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