Hello from eastern NC

Welcome! I'm new too. What kind of build are you going to do? Gonna make a thread (if you didn't already)?
I'll probably have to build eventually too, but I'm at 65k now and all compression tests, UOAs, logs look great, so I'm hoping to ride out the stock block a long time.
 
Redline said:
Welcome! I'm new too. What kind of build are you going to do? Gonna make a thread (if you didn't already)?
I'll probably have to build eventually too, but I'm at 65k now and all compression tests, UOAs, logs look great, so I'm hoping to ride out the stock block a long time.
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I'm just refreshing my last build, already have a built bottom end, switching from gt3076 atp hotside to gtx3076 with tial .82 hotside. Keyed crank, stage 2 head from sp63. If it will ever get here the new cp-e intake manifold. Swapping from throttle body 6th port to full port injection. Clutchmasters twin disk. Swapping out to all new Damond motor mounts. Cleaning up some wiring and hoses; i already had the supporting stuff in the car, my clutch started slipping late last year so it prompted all this. Really just building everything up so if i want to go full retard after this summer i can.
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Mzr0818 said:
Hola senior. Nice to have you.
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Thank you, its nice to be here.
 
Let me know if you guys have questions. I've done motor builds, BT builds and almost everything you would ever need
 
Mzr0818 said:
Let me know if you guys have questions. I've done motor builds, BT builds and almost everything you would ever need
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What do you think about those new 4032 piston options? Honestly, I think they'd be right up my alley, goal-wise (very long service interval, and hopefully good for ~500whp). I saw that SP63 only recommends them to 425whp. That seems very low to me. Maybe they could be used with just a little wider ring-end gap to be 500whp bulletproof? My whole thing is that I wouldn't want 2618s that only give me maybe 50k good miles, at best. At the same time, if I build, I don't want ringland issues either.
 
What are your goals? Also if a daily the 2618's are probably not the ones for you anyway. What turbo do you plan to go to?
 
Mzr0818 said:
What are your goals? Also if a daily the 2618's are probably not the ones for you anyway. What turbo do you plan to go to?
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500whp in a daily that'll reliably go 100k without major issues. I may settle for 450-475 on a BNR S4 if turns out to be as responsive/reliable as my S3 is. But if not, maybe a GTX3076r.
 
Redline said:
500whp in a daily that'll reliably go 100k without major issues. I may settle for 450-475 on a BNR S4 if turns out to be as responsive/reliable as my S3 is. But if not, maybe a GTX3076r.
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First 500 WHP, I will not say you cant get there and still daily the car. I know several who do, but a 500whp car inevitably looses reliability. Added heat, Added fueling, Added components etc. The more you modify the less reliable it will be over all. I finally retired mine to just toy duty after pushing the bnr to just north of 400. I switched to the GTX to be able to produce the same power without the turbo having to work as hard.

Second, What type of driving do you do? I do mostly circuit tracks, (VIR, CMP, Gingerman raceway, AMP) If you want to do just drag, or HWY raping then ok, otherwise a 500 whp car is terrible to drive.

Third, The S3 is a great turbo but above 380 is really above their efficiency range. We had a couple as high as 417, but that turbo will not live thong there. The S4 is going to loose spool time vs the S3 and will push into 420 or so reliably. 450 is high and 475 is out of the question. If you go big enough to hit 500 reliably then you are going to be much higher spool time and need auxillery fueling = $$$
 
Mzr0818 said:
First 500 WHP, I will not say you cant get there and still daily the car. I know several who do, but a 500whp car inevitably looses reliability. Added heat, Added fueling, Added components etc. The more you modify the less reliable it will be over all. I finally retired mine to just toy duty after pushing the bnr to just north of 400. I switched to the GTX to be able to produce the same power without the turbo having to work as hard.

Second, What type of driving do you do? I do mostly circuit tracks, (VIR, CMP, Gingerman raceway, AMP) If you want to do just drag, or HWY raping then ok, otherwise a 500 whp car is terrible to drive.

Third, The S3 is a great turbo but above 380 is really above their efficiency range. We had a couple as high as 417, but that turbo will not live thong there. The S4 is going to loose spool time vs the S3 and will push into 420 or so reliably. 450 is high and 475 is out of the question. If you go big enough to hit 500 reliably then you are going to be much higher spool time and need auxillery fueling = $$$
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It really is about not pushing everything too hard. Get a clutch better than you need. Run PI or methanol that can flow way more than you need, and with the appropriate failsafes. Get a 550whp turbo to run 500 regularly, etc. All of that makes sense to me. You want to be in the sweet spot regarding all of the hard parts' operating ranges if you want longevity.

Mixed city/highway DD would be most of it, but I'd like to get into occasional auto-x too.

I know about Justin and Realgib (wasn't it, or was it someone else) who were in the 420whp range at the upper limit of the S3. You have to run 26-27psi to do it, and it's at the ragged edge, so I realize I'd have to go a good deal bigger. The S3 flows ~43 lbs/min. I'd probably need 55lbs/min to reliably hit 500whp and not be pushing it. Bryan Nickell designed the S4 to easily hit 450 and end up at about 475, and FWIH, he succeeded. It's meant for built-motor guys, and they'll have the flow mods to get there without too much difficulty. It's essentially a GT3076-lite, right? A regular GT3076 is about 53lbs/min:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=40727288

If I had my dream turbo, it'd be an EFR7163. Spool like a K04 and top-end like a GTX3076r.
 
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Redline said:
It really is about not pushing everything too hard. Get a clutch better than you need. Run PI or methanol that can flow way more than you need, and with the appropriate failsafes. Get a 550whp turbo to run 500 regularly, etc. All of that makes sense to me. You want to be in the sweet spot regarding all of the hard parts' operating ranges if you want longevity.

Mixed city/highway DD would be most of it, but I'd like to get into occasional auto-x too.

I know about Justin and Realgib (wasn't it, or was it someone else) who were in the 420whp range at the upper limit of the S3. You have to run 26-27psi to do it, and it's at the ragged edge, so I realize I'd have to go a good deal bigger. The S3 flows ~43 lbs/min. I'd probably need 55lbs/min to reliably hit 500whp and not be pushing it. Bryan Nickell designed the S4 to easily hit 450 and end up at about 475, and FWIH, he succeeded. It's meant for built-motor guys, and they'll have the flow mods to get there without too much difficulty. It's essentially a GT3076-lite, right? A regular GT3076 is about 53lbs/min:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=40727288


If I had my dream turbo, it'd be an EFR7163. Spool like a K04 and top-end like a GTX3076r.
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Efr turbos are the best. But install requires a lot more and they cost big $$$ To me you are better off with a S3 if autocross is what you want. It is better for dd and full range of power. The S4 or a gt 3076 is going to be 1000 rpm higher spool. It is not what you are looking for. If you want more with out too much gain in spool you have to split the difference. Thats why I chose the GTX3067 I want 400/400 all day every day. Then I can push it to 450 when I want to hurt feelings. No additional fueling needed.
 
Mzr0818 said:
Efr turbos are the best. But install requires a lot more and they cost big $$$ To me you are better off with a S3 if autocross is what you want. It is better for dd and full range of power. The S4 or a gt 3076 is going to be 1000 rpm higher spool. It is not what you are looking for. If you want more with out too much gain in spool you have to split the difference. Thats why I chose the GTX3067 I want 400/400 all day every day. Then I can push it to 450 when I want to hurt feelings. No additional fueling needed.
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Yeah, like I said, if money were no object, then EFR7163 all day. I like that it has oil AND water in the CHRA too, unlike the PTEs. And the transient response on EFR is second-to-none (great for canyon-carving, auto-x, etc.).

But turbo choice isn't really my question. I've already done the research on that, for the most part. I DO want to see more data on the S4 as it appears, however. For me the main benefit of the S4 is price/ease of install; I realize I'd give up some responsiveness with it. 500whp turbos are going to feel a lot different than my S3, in general. Back to the alloys: do you think those 4032s can handle 500whp when SP63 is recommending them only for 425whp?
 
Redline said:
Yeah, like I said, if money were no object, then EFR7163 all day. I like that it has oil AND water in the CHRA too, unlike the PTEs. And the transient response on EFR is second-to-none (great for canyon-carving, auto-x, etc.).

But turbo choice isn't really my question. I've already done the research on that, for the most part. I DO want to see more data on the S4 as it appears, however. I realize 500whp turbos are going to feel a lot different than my S3. Back to the alloys: do you think those 4032s can handle 500whp when SP63 is recommending them only for 425whp?
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LOL... Yes they will but not for 100k miles. I guess what I am trying to tell you is at 500hp you are over driving the 4032 hence shortening their life or the 2618's which can hold what ever... but weaken over time. The outcome is the same. Ringlands will not be a problem on either one. If stock piston ring gaps were larger it would not be a problem on them either.

You want both strength and longevity and they don't go together.

I want tires that grip like there is no tomorrow but will last 60k miles. but those do not exist either.
 
Mzr0818 said:
LOL... Yes they will but not for 100k miles. I guess what I am trying to tell you is at 500hp you are over driving the 4032 hence shortening their life or the 2618's which can hold what ever... but weaken over time. The outcome is the same. Ringlands will not be a problem on either one. If stock piston ring gaps were larger it would not be a problem on them either.

You want both strength and longevity and they don't go together.

I want tires that grip like there is no tomorrow but will last 60k miles. but those do not exist either.
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LOL. Can't have my cake and eat it too... Dang. So you think stock pistons with a bigger ring-end gap? I didn't think the material would hold up. 4032 alloy seemed like it may be the best of both worlds. And with alcohol to keep everything cool... well, I was just hoping, haha.
 
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