Intake manifolds

E

exar_kun78

Greenie N00B Member
What are your thoughts about whats out there???
Corksport intake manifold
Damond intake manifold
JMF intake manifold v1 and v2
OE intake manifold ported with flappers deleted...

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OE sucks. JMF sucks. Damond is good, according to some word I've heard through the grapevine CS is good but I need to see the white paper to confirm.
 
djohns said:
OE sucks. JMF sucks. Damond is good, according to some word I've heard through the grapevine CS is good but I need to see the white paper to confirm.
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I would be curious to know why you think the JMF sucks.

Also OP, it depends on your goals? 300hp, stock is all you "need". If you want more flow CS or the ST mani are a great option. Do you want to go big and use PI? Well your going to want to pick up a JMF or a 16w if you can get your hands on one.

Just like with most things, there isnt one thats the "best" necessarily. use the right tool for the job. Sure you can put a nail in with a crescent wrench, but a hammer would be a lot better choice.
 
djohns said:
OE sucks. JMF sucks. Damond is good, according to some word I've heard through the grapevine CS is good but I need to see the white paper to confirm.
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Corksport is saying that the flow is increase by 21% to each cylinder and also the flow is equal to each cylinder kind of meaning it wont run rich on one particular cylinder,,,

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Maisonvi said:
I would be curious to know why you think the JMF sucks.

Also OP, it depends on your goals? 300hp, stock is all you "need". If you want more flow CS or the ST mani are a great option. Do you want to go big and use PI? Well your going to want to pick up a JMF or a 16w if you can get your hands on one.

Just like with most things, there isnt one thats the "best" necessarily. use the right tool for the job. Sure you can put a nail in with a crescent wrench, but a hammer would be a lot better choice.
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Its a tough decision, its a mod that will cost pretty much 1000 cd $...im like you i wonder why JMF intake sucks?

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djohns said:
OE sucks. JMF sucks. Damond is good, according to some word I've heard through the grapevine CS is good but I need to see the white paper to confirm.
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Lol @ JMF sucking... At the end of the day, evenness of flow matters and trap speed/tuneability (idk if that's a word) matters. Those words are coming from 16w Fabworks after someone whined to them about not having flow bench numbers. JMF manifolds are the highest whp, highest trapping, and most commonly used aftermarked intake manifolds on this platform so until another manifold takes that crown, it is far from the worst. Might not be the best for a daily driven 300whp car but like I said, definitely not the worst lol

tl;dr white papers don't matter, performance matters.
 
Reason I say JMF sucks is because of how how shitty the distribution of flow is. It's a joke. Yea it can outflow all of the other manifolds but it's completely uneven.
 
alexwlwsn said:
Lol @ JMF sucking... At the end of the day, evenness of flow matters and trap speed/tuneability (idk if that's a word) matters. Those words are coming from 16w Fabworks after someone whined to them about not having flow bench numbers. JMF manifolds are the highest whp, highest trapping, and most commonly used aftermarked intake manifolds on this platform so until another manifold takes that crown, it is far from the worst. Might not be the best for a daily driven 300whp car but like I said, definitely not the worst lol

tl;dr white papers don't matter, performance matters.
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Sure, if all you do is drag race... Running an engine wide open for 10 seconds or less isn't nearly as hard as running an engine hard for 20 minutes at a time. White papers and bench testing most certainly do matter, if it didn't then OEs wouldn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on development research every year. 16w actually does have their products bench tested, I offered to do it for them and they informed me they have all their stuff bench tested at HeadGames Motorworks. They most certainly do have the bench numbers, they just aren't releasing them. As I've outlined in other threads, the JMF mani is a good manifold for drag racing where peak power matters and its short runners and large plenum cater to that. But for cars where midthrottle and overall power curve are more important then something with a smaller plenum and longer runners and flows more evenly definitely is more desirable.

Sorry if that comes off a bit blunt or if I sound like an ass, I don't want this to be a rant but something that not a lot of people realize is that the majority of parts in the aftermarket world are made by fabricators, not engineers. And often times those fabricators miss vital design aspects. Sure they can make a part that fits, but can they make a part that performs as desired is the real question/challenge.
 
AYOUSTIN said:
Sure, if all you do is drag race... Running an engine wide open for 10 seconds or less isn't nearly as hard as running an engine hard for 20 minutes at a time. White papers and bench testing most certainly do matter, if it didn't then OEs wouldn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on development research every year. 16w actually does have their products bench tested, I offered to do it for them and they informed me they have all their stuff bench tested at HeadGames Motorworks. They most certainly do have the bench numbers, they just aren't releasing them. As I've outlined in other threads, the JMF mani is a good manifold for drag racing where peak power matters and its short runners and large plenum cater to that. But for cars where midthrottle and overall power curve are more important then something with a smaller plenum and longer runners and flows more evenly definitely is more desirable.

Sorry if that comes off a bit blunt or if I sound like an ass, I don't want this to be a rant but something that not a lot of people realize is that the majority of parts in the aftermarket world are made by fabricators, not engineers. And often times those fabricators miss vital design aspects. Sure they can make a part that fits, but can they make a part that performs as desired is the real question/challenge.
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No worries at all. I was just trying to point out that maybe a pretty write-up wasn't the end all be all of a manifold. I knew they had theirs tested but I also know they said it was basically irrelevant to advertise the numbers. I believe you were commenting in the same exact thread on Facebook.
 
alexwlwsn said:
No worries at all. I was just trying to point out that maybe a pretty write-up wasn't the end all be all of a manifold. I knew they had theirs tested but I also know they said it was basically irrelevant to advertise the numbers. I believe you were commenting in the same exact thread on Facebook.
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Yea that was a while ago. My fb is long gone now lol. But yea, testing certainly isn't the be all end all of a part's performance. I've seen it firsthand how a part will perform stellar in a test cell but be garbage in the real world and the real world results are what ultimately matter. But testing and research allow you to get within a ballpark of where you want to be normally or give you an idea of how something will behave or react under certain conditions.
 
To address the OP:

The new CS looks very promising. Stick around here long enough and you`ll see praise for CS from me is a noteworthy event. LOL.

JMF is a great high power manifold, probably the best available in that regard, though it`s not saying much. We don´t have a lot to choose from.

The ST manifold/DM adapter IMO is the most bang for the buck and effective for daily driven cars. I believe 5Doors cracked 500whp with one. I´m not far behind him with a ported OE and the ST is going on next week so we`ll see what happens.

Ported OE: Does its job. Decent throttle response, poor distribution (though improved when ported). Simply does not have the volume to flow next-level power. Did just fine at 425ish for me. Above that takes too much boost to flow the air necessary to make power to redline.

The 16w looks amazing, but seems to be suffering from "two week-itis"
 
who does the porting/vtcs delete on stock manifolds nowadays? I remember relentless did it for a while, but I saw they closed shop.
 
bender_ said:
who does the porting/vtcs delete on stock manifolds nowadays? I remember relentless did it for a while, but I saw they closed shop.
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There`s a couple of private efforts out there. One dude in Florida seems to offer them pretty regularly. I did mine myself but all I did was grind out the vcts bump and open the ports up a little. Didn`t even polish it, knowing I had the ST manifold on deck to go in.
 
AYOUSTIN said:
something that not a lot of people realize is that the majority of parts in the aftermarket world are made by fabricators, not engineers. And often times those fabricators miss vital design aspects. Sure they can make a part that fits, but can they make a part that performs as desired is the real question/challenge.
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Just a comment on this as I consider myself both. Cost is a factor that you are missing in this. Sure I can engineer fab a manifold that out flows everything, and is the best all around. Give me 10k or more and I will make it happen. But no one is going to pay that. Its all checks and balances that people dont take into account. Yeaht the JMF has flow issues, it was designed to be a "drop" in manifold. put a 90 before the entrance and you will have issues. They made a choice with it.

Just annoys me to see people discounting something that wasnt designed for what they are asking. Stop hitting nails with crescent wrenches
 
Maisonvi said:
Just a comment on this as I consider myself both. Cost is a factor that you are missing in this. Sure I can engineer fab a manifold that out flows everything, and is the best all around. Give me 10k or more and I will make it happen. But no one is going to pay that. Its all checks and balances that people dont take into account. Yeaht the JMF has flow issues, it was designed to be a "drop" in manifold. put a 90 before the entrance and you will have issues. They made a choice with it.

Just annoys me to see people discounting something that wasnt designed for what they are asking. Stop hitting nails with crescent wrenches
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Yes cost is definitely a factor. And so is target audience. The evo world has tons of manifold options ranging anywhere from $500-$2000 and they vary in design. But there's also lots more people who modify evos and are willing to shell out money accordingly for it compared to mazdaspeeds. Part of the problem I see with the speed manifolds is that up until last year, JMF was the only aftermarket option. And yes it was designed to be drop in, but in the end it really wasn't. I don't think I've seen a single person who didn't have to modify their charge pipes to get it to meet the throttle body properly. Not to mention the fitment issues with the fuel pressure sensor and power steering pumps. As for the flow issue through the elbow, the issue isn't with the elbow itself, it's with the "ceiling" of the plenum. The most annoying part is that they fixed this issue on the FoST version but not the speed version of their manifold.

I don't want to turn this into a "here's what's wrong with so and so's part" thread. The JMF manifold works. Could it be better? Yes, most things in life can be. But that's also why there's beauty in having options. Hopefully the speed platform finally is getting more options.
 
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AYOUSTIN said:
Yes cost is definitely a factor. And so is target audience. The evo world has tons of manifold options ranging anywhere from $500-$2000 and they vary in design. But there's also lots more people who modify evos and are willing to shell out money accordingly for it compared to mazdaspeeds. Part of the problem I see with the speed manifolds is that up until last year, JMF was the only aftermarket option. And yes it was designed to be drop in, but in the end it really wasn't. I don't think I've seen a single person who didn't have to modify their charge pipes to get it to meet the throttle body properly. Not to mention the fitment issues with the fuel pressure sensor and power steering pumps. As for the flow issue through the elbow, the issue isn't with the elbow itself, it's with the "ceiling" of the plenum. The most annoying part is that they fixed this issue on the FoST version but not the speed version of their manifold.
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Yeah thats annoying for sure about the ST. I didnt have to change my piping at all, but with my FMIC piping all the way off, its hard to say that I didnt align it different when I installed. No changes to the pipes or anything though.

Really the 16w seems like it took a look at a lot of what the issues were and addressed them, but getting one is for sure an issue
 
If my car wasn't a daily and it was a strict 1/4 mile track car I would have no problem running a JMF since they flow super well. No doubting that. But for someone who's wanting a daily it just spells bad news for me. Essentially the way I see it, if it's a daily you're just putting a super high flow oem manifold on there since the flow balance is still terribly off like OEM.
 
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