Rich condition

[DotBoi]

My 2007 Mazdaspeed3 has been running very rich. You can drive it but I avoid to right now as it will stall at idle sometimes. My AFRs at Idle will be in the 9-12 range most of the time. Cruising is alright, except when you let off the throttle, fuel continues to enter the engine creating pops and bangs.

Mods to the car: Catback exhaust, HPFP internals, Unbranded Short ram Intake, Sure turbo inlet pipe, Aftermarket DV, Front mounted inter cooler, regular oil changes every 3k miles. 120K miles on the car.

Codes from the ECU:
P0300 Random/Multiple misfire,
P2006 Intake Manf Runner control stuck closed bank 1a,
P2178 System Too rich off idle bank1,
P2188 System roo rich at idle bank1.

The car has been running solid on a Stage 1 OTS tune for about a month, I created my own MAF calibration profile for my intake which ended up working very well for the past months.
A few nights ago driving around normally, rolled up to a stoplight and the car stalled and it has been running rich since.

A few things I've tried, cleaning the MAF, cleaning the O2 Sensors, cleaning the throttle body, re-calibrating the MAF multiple times, checked for vacuum leaks, DIY boost leak tested, and no leaks or drips anywhere that I can see. I thought maybe it would be the fuel relief valve, I noticed the Actual fuel pressure and the Desired pressure are very apart in the logs, what do you guys think it could be?
I have some Accessport logs which you can view here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vxSqElc74YZPSKeShGUbSS9QF1Wm8iky?usp=sharing

 

[_kaaaaal_]

hey man you ever find out what was wrong? i’m getting a p2188 but my cars actually running lean for some reason but i can’t figure out why

 

[DotBoi]

Not yet,
More updates on what I have done.
Replaced Both o2 sensors
Vacuum tested Purge valve, holds vacuum just fine
Replaced the MAP and MAF sensor
Cleaned HPFP internals and fuel lines
Cleaned out the EGR and EGR lines
Pulled the intake mani, cleaned it out.
Cleaned and Walnut blasted the intake valves,
Got my fuel injectors tested at a local shop, no leaks, spay is ok. Within spec.
Added corksport injector seals.
Replaced PVC valve and added a catch can in the loop.
Changed oil and filter.
Changed spark plug and coils
Compression test, all within spec.
Checked VVT, timing chain is nice and tight.
Tried factory air box + intercooler + BPV + stock tune
Checked wiring harness for any frayed wires. Probed with a multi meter for bad grounds or shorting.

All of this and nothing. Spooky huh?
When I try to calibrate the MAF, I will get it running ok that night and come back to it the next day and all the sudden my fuel trims are pegged at -25 or +25 sometimes.
One thing I did notice is there is a VERY long rev hang when you stomp the gas pedal for a second.
After I cleaned the intake valves, the car does seem noticeably smoother but the AFRs are still whack.
No new codes from the ECU at all.
If I ever do find the cause of all of this I will update the thread. I really wonder if my ECU is just not having it.

 

[The_big_dill]

hey man you ever find out what was wrong? i’m getting a p2188 but my cars actually running lean for some reason but i can’t figure out why

Seeing as he only has 2 posts from half a year ago, i suspect he has

Not yet,
More updates on what I have done.
Replaced Both o2 sensors
Replaced the MAP sensor
Cleaned HPFP internals and fuel lines
Cleaned out the EGR and EGR lines
Pulled the intake mani, cleaned it out.
Cleaned and Walnut blasted the intake valves,
Got my fuel injectors tested at a local shop, no leaks, spay is ok. Within spec.
Added corksport injector seals.
Replaced PVC valve and added a catch can in the loop.
Changed oil and filter.
Changed spark plug and coils
Compression test, all within spec.
Checked VVT, timing chain is nice and tight.
Tried factor air box + intercooler + BPV
Checked wiring harness for any frayed wires. Probed with a multi meter for bad grounds or shorting.

All of this and nothing. Spooky huh?
When I try to calibrate the MAF, I will get it running ok that night and come back to it the next day and all the sudden my fuel trims are pegged at -25 or +25 sometimes.
One thing I did notice is there is a VERY long rev hang when you stomp the gas pedal for a second.
After I cleaned the intake valves, the car does seem noticeably smoother but the AFRs are still whack.
No new codes from the ECU at all.
If I ever do find the cause of all of this I will update the thread.

I think the lack of reply on your original post says that you did a thorough job diagnosing it from what we can help. I guess throwing parts at it didn't help either :\

This sounds like an intermittent issue: These are the worst to diagnose.

The fuel trims you are seeing is just the ECU trying to compensate for unusual conditions. I do see certain inconsistancies in your logs regarding MAF V and flow (g/s). But this isn't conclusive since I don't know what your MAF cal table looks like.

I noticed that in your diagnostics of the MAF, you did not do much more than clean the MAF sensor. This sensor is critical for good closed loop operation. If you don't have another sensor to replace, try unplugging it all together and see how your car runs at idle. (watch your AFRs).

Following that, check wiring. When you checked the wiring harness, which areas did you check? I have heard of people having issues with the MAF wiring. I would peel pack the corrugated tubing and inspect the wires thoroughly.

 

[Woodzms3]

Did you ever find the problem ? Im having similar issues

 

[DotBoi]

Here it is, after months of searching. I found the issue and fixed it, It turned out to be the Turbo.
After months of trying some parts, and reading on the internet. One day when I ran the car to pull it in the garage, I started to see the legendary plumes of smoke coming from the tail pipe and the first thing that came to my mind was the turbo.
Pulled the old K04 out, There was evidence of coolant and oil in the exhaust side of the housing, hell there was even some oil and coolant leaking out of the exhaust flange connections.

Not a ton of shaft play on the turbo surprisingly, only just slightly more then a new one would have. I bought a brand new K04 and installed it after that. It took me about 40 hours of labor doing by myself for the first time with only hand tools.
Interestingly, the old turbo 'seemed' fine before it started smoking. It would build boost just fine but idle and cruising the car would run like shit. My theory is that the bearings went first, causing the turbo compressor to have more resistance at lower RPMs and boost, which probably caused all of my inconsistent AFR issues. Months later after the main issue started, the turbo seals went and the smoking issue started.

I have the new turbo in the car now and it runs like a dream, its on the same tune I had it on previously. It seems better then it was before the original issue came up since all of the other work that was done recently. A very interesting issue but I'm glad its all figured out now. Ran into so many people saying "Get a tune" on the forms and reddit but you cant tune a car that its not mechanically sound.
Anyways, I hope this helps people who have the same issue in the future

 

[L337TurboZ]

Did the body of the turbo crack or just the seals went out that badly?

 

[Woodzms3]

Here it is, after months of searching. I found the issue and fixed it, It turned out to be the Turbo.
After months of trying some parts, and reading on the internet. One day when I ran the car to pull it in the garage, I started to see the legendary plumes of smoke coming from the tail pipe and the first thing that came to my mind was the turbo.
Pulled the old K04 out, There was evidence of coolant and oil in the exhaust side of the housing, hell there was even some oil and coolant leaking out of the exhaust flange connections.

Not a ton of shaft play on the turbo surprisingly, only just slightly more then a new one would have. I bought a brand new K04 and installed it after that. It took me about 40 hours of labor doing by myself for the first time with only hand tools.
Interestingly, the old turbo 'seemed' fine before it started smoking. It would build boost just fine but idle and cruising the car would run like shit. My theory is that the bearings went first, causing the turbo compressor to have more resistance at lower RPMs and boost, which probably caused all of my inconsistent AFR issues. Months later after the main issue started, the turbo seals went and the smoking issue started.

I have the new turbo in the car now and it runs like a dream, its on the same tune I had it on previously. It seems better then it was before the original issue came up since all of the other work that was done recently. A very interesting issue but I'm glad its all figured out now. Ran into so many people saying "Get a tune" on the forms and reddit but you cant tune a car that its not mechanically sound.
Anyways, I hope this helps people who have the same issue in the future

Makes sense, my problem is that i put my old oem catted down pipe (that has been sitting outside) back on for emissions im guessing it was really clogged with dirt and caused alot of back pressure possibly ruining my turbo. I haven’t solved my issue but my problems are exactly like your with my stft and ltft at -25 extremely rich a/f at around 9 or 8 i have changed and tested the sensors and done boost leak test and nothing car still runs like shit bogging out and stalling with loads of white smoke my turbo seems fine with no shaft play at 75 k but your reply is makes it me suspect the turbo more did you notice fuel in your oil?


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[DotBoi]

@Woodzms3
Just the turbo seals where bad and the bearing was questionable, the housings and blades looked fine on both sides. I did notice a ton of fuel getting in my oil and oil catch can going though the PCV valve. I changed the oil and filter 3 times during troubleshooting. I ran the car for maybe 15 minutes on fresh oil change and then it reeked of fuel afterwards. If you are seeing lots of white smoke, I suspect its the turbo seals they often tend to put out lots of smoke when the fail. If you can get a leak down test + compression test done that would be good to check to make sure the block and head are sound, white smoke could indicate a blown head gasket sometimes worse, but its not as common on these cars compared to others.

 

[Woodzms3]

@Woodzms3
Just the turbo seals where bad and the bearing was questionable, the housings and blades looked fine on both sides. I did notice a ton of fuel getting in my oil and oil catch can going though the PCV valve. I changed the oil and filter 3 times during troubleshooting. I ran the car for maybe 15 minutes on fresh oil change and then it reeked of fuel afterwards. If you are seeing lots of white smoke, I suspect its the turbo seals they often tend to put out lots of smoke when the fail. If you can get a leak down test + compression test done that would be good to check to make sure the block and head are sound, white smoke could indicate a blown head gasket sometimes worse, but its not as common on these cars compared to others.

Yes I definitely have to do a leak down test and see what might be causing my rich a/f at idle. my turbo spools up fine at idle and sounds normal so either my turbo is out or something in my car is telling it to dump excessive amounts of fuel which is causing it to not burn all of it and go into the oil. Did you also have rich a/f at idle?


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[The_big_dill]

Yes I definitely have to do a leak down test and see what might be causing my rich a/f at idle. my turbo spools up fine at idle and sounds normal so either my turbo is out or something in my car is telling it to dump excessive amounts of fuel which is causing it to not burn all of it and go into the oil. Did you also have rich a/f at idle?


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Are you getting the same DTCs?

 

[Woodzms3]

Are you getting the same DTCs?

Dtcs ? Are u talking about codes if so my only code i get is p0172 running rich im pretty sure the car will pull out more codes but i cant drive it since its running wack and doesn’t have enough time to learn trims.


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[The_big_dill]

Dtcs ? Are u talking about codes if so my only code i get is p0172 running rich im pretty sure the car will pull out more codes but i cant drive it since its running wack and doesn’t have enough time to learn trims.


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Can you share a log?

Try pulling all 4 of your spark plugs and compare what the ends look like, are they all the same?

 

[Woodzms3]

here it is I have pulled them out and put new spark plugs in and after a couple of start ups they were black all four of them

 

[The_big_dill]

here it is I have pulled them out and put new spark plugs in and after a couple of start ups they were black all four of them

Did all 4 plugs look the same? Was there an outlier?

See if you can modify your logger to collect all sensor data for this test. I am specifically interested in Accel. pedal position (APP) and Coolant temp.

Based on what I can see,
- Your vacuum readings are OK, I don't think you have a vacuum leak.
- The O2 sensor is likely OK as you reported your spark plugs are covered in black soot. In addition, it looks like the O2 sensor is responding appropriately to ECU injection timing (backing off the throttle, injectors should be off, your system shows this behavior)
- Ignition timing seems reasonable for the load and RPM the engine is seeing, so your tune is likely not the problem.

How is your throttle response right now?

It looked like the commanded throttle position slowly raised and slowly declined (to a maximum of ~30%), but that is TPS (throttle position) not APP so I can't tell if that is what you did with your foot or the computer decided that for you. This is why I need to see APP

What happens if you stab the throttle? (fast change in throttle) Will the engine die?

If my analysis is correct, you may have something clogging your intake or your throttle body is acting up. What is more likely though, is that you have a leaking fuel injector.

 

[Woodzms3]

Did all 4 plugs look the same? Was there an outlier?

See if you can modify your logger to collect all sensor data for this test. I am specifically interested in Accel. pedal position (APP) and Coolant temp.

Based on what I can see,
- Your vacuum readings are OK, I don't think you have a vacuum leak.
- The O2 sensor is likely OK as you reported your spark plugs are covered in black soot. In addition, it looks like the O2 sensor is responding appropriately to ECU injection timing (backing off the throttle, injectors should be off, your system shows this behavior)
- Ignition timing seems reasonable for the load and RPM the engine is seeing, so your tune is likely not the problem.

How is your throttle response right now?

It looked like the commanded throttle position slowly raised and slowly declined (to a maximum of ~30%), but that is TPS (throttle position) not APP so I can't tell if that is what you did with your foot or the computer decided that for you. This is why I need to see APP

What happens if you stab the throttle? (fast change in throttle) Will the engine die?

If my analysis is correct, you may have something clogging your intake or your throttle body is acting up. What is more likely though, is that you have a leaking fuel injector.

Yes im also suspecting the throttle. in my log i just blip the throttle once, after that I don’t touch it. In my other logs the throttle percentage never reaches 0% it always fluctuates a couple numbers up or down without me touching the gas pedal and at idle, SO is it normal for a throttle to move like that because of the ecu ? Or does it stay at 0% when at idle. I can show you other logs at idle if u wish. But not cruising logs because the car just bogs out after warmed up.


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[L337TurboZ]

Yes im also suspecting the throttle. in my log i just blip the throttle once, after that I don’t touch it. In my other logs the throttle percentage never reaches 0% it always fluctuates a couple numbers up or down without me touching the gas pedal and at idle, SO is it normal for a throttle to move like that because of the ecu ? Or does it stay at 0% when at idle. I can show you other logs at idle if u wish. But not cruising logs because the car just bogs out after warmed up.


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The throttle percentage will fluctuate a small amount usually 1 or 2 percent either way to maintain idle but nothing rapid.

 

[The_big_dill]

Yes im also suspecting the throttle. in my log i just blip the throttle once, after that I don’t touch it. In my other logs the throttle percentage never reaches 0% it always fluctuates a couple numbers up or down without me touching the gas pedal and at idle, SO is it normal for a throttle to move like that because of the ecu ? Or does it stay at 0% when at idle. I can show you other logs at idle if u wish. But not cruising logs because the car just bogs out after warmed up.


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I just realized that you have a separate thread for your concerns, I Will continue this diagnostics there.