steve@versatune
Approved Vendor
Who has high flow DI injectors? We released an update for VersaTuner today that exposes the injector pulsewidth tables.
VersaTuner Support for High Flow DI Injectors
- Thread starter steve@versatune
- Start date
- Watchers 6
DatsunZ
Greenie Member
Interesting development. I had heard that the injector pulse tables weren’t scalable on a factory ECU and that was why nobody made DI injector upgrades for these cars. Due to this it may not really be able to be tested as you’d like.
Possible movement forward would probably be in the realm of finding out if there is anything to gain from modding the stock injectors (like how people “de-cap” stock injectors on the RX8/Miata) and using that table. Or testing other injectors like OEM Focus RS and Mustang stuff and aftermarket stuff sold by Mountune just to see if they can be run successfully and inject more fuel than the stock Mazda bits, then yourself or the community can look into the feasibility of adapting them to our platform if possible.
The really million dollar discovery though would be If unlocking these tables may introduce a way to run port injection without additional hardware and let the ECU control and command everything.
Possible movement forward would probably be in the realm of finding out if there is anything to gain from modding the stock injectors (like how people “de-cap” stock injectors on the RX8/Miata) and using that table. Or testing other injectors like OEM Focus RS and Mustang stuff and aftermarket stuff sold by Mountune just to see if they can be run successfully and inject more fuel than the stock Mazda bits, then yourself or the community can look into the feasibility of adapting them to our platform if possible.
The really million dollar discovery though would be If unlocking these tables may introduce a way to run port injection without additional hardware and let the ECU control and command everything.
Last edited:
Enki
Motorhead
Unlikely unless the ECU can run the injectors in series (one PI, one DI per channel)...That is likely to burn out the PI injectors probably instantly, if anything, when you consider the power requirements for DI injectors.
DatsunZ
Greenie Member
True it’s not very likely, and at the very least would still require wiring and modification (probably to the ECU board).
But it did take almost 20yrs from the first MZR Turbo hitting streets to even get to this point of finding 2 tables for injector control, so clearly there was still some stuff hidden in the ECU that isn’t fully understood. The OEMs usually build the ECU data during engine testing phase, so Mazda/Ford may have left logic behind for running a 2nd bank of injection if they ever messed around with that in the initial design.
But yeah ultimately finding compatible upgraded injectors and a FPRV that goes to 150bar would probably the most cost effective for everybody.
But it did take almost 20yrs from the first MZR Turbo hitting streets to even get to this point of finding 2 tables for injector control, so clearly there was still some stuff hidden in the ECU that isn’t fully understood. The OEMs usually build the ECU data during engine testing phase, so Mazda/Ford may have left logic behind for running a 2nd bank of injection if they ever messed around with that in the initial design.
But yeah ultimately finding compatible upgraded injectors and a FPRV that goes to 150bar would probably the most cost effective for everybody.
Enki
Motorhead
I'm reasonably sure that the ECU for the Speed 6 (which would be rolled forward to the 3s) is an example of some of the earliest GDI type stuff. It might be unlikely that secondary injection would be considered in such a case, because at the time, the commonly known pitfalls of DI would not have yet been apparent.
As for the PRV, I'm reasonably sure this can be done with a spring swap; the bigger issue would be exposing the rail pressure calibration tables to allow for a higher rail pressure, but that may roll over into issues with existing hardware not being up to snuff for the higher pressures. It's better that we tackle this one step at a time, starting with injectors.
Enki
Motorhead
Had a pretty good discussion with XDI over email, and the provided way more information to some guy on the internet than I was expecting to get. That said, they did want alot of it to be kept confidential, but here's what I can share outright:
They expect to ship a working product sometime this summer, and expect it to cost around $1200 (assuming market conditions for materials and the like don't swing heavily).
Honestly, yesterday me scoffed at this potential new product, but today there's some excitement in my veins.
I believe that the final holdup is tuning, but I could be wrong on that. @steve@versatune , any further input or info?
They expect to ship a working product sometime this summer, and expect it to cost around $1200 (assuming market conditions for materials and the like don't swing heavily).
Honestly, yesterday me scoffed at this potential new product, but today there's some excitement in my veins.
I believe that the final holdup is tuning, but I could be wrong on that. @steve@versatune , any further input or info?
roli1206
Greenie Member
versa update for injector scaling is already out will be just a matter of time
$1200 per injector or for a set of 4?
DatsunZ
Greenie Member
I would assume for the set of 4 injectors as well at $1200.
That’s cool that this manufacturer is prepared for our platform. Everything I said earlier is rendered moot by this new info. Thanks for the update @Enki
That would just leave FPRV spring modification, or retrofit and maybe fuel rail pressure sensor (not sure if it’s been tested how high those can read).
That’s cool that this manufacturer is prepared for our platform. Everything I said earlier is rendered moot by this new info. Thanks for the update @Enki
That would just leave FPRV spring modification, or retrofit and maybe fuel rail pressure sensor (not sure if it’s been tested how high those can read).
Enki
Motorhead
Spring mod *should* be straightforward, but at that point, whats the failure pressure of the rail and hardline? Not sure I want to do that test myself.
Rail sensor could get a mapping table for voltage to pressure, which is what I assume the stock one uses; it would be up to the gents at Versatune to do this, which in their case, also means doing it for every platform they support currently before it gets released (I could be wrong, but I believe that's how they do things so all features are 1:1 for every platform).
roli1206
Greenie Member
we had with 180 bar in the rail without a problem
roli1206
Greenie Member
38°~ was the highest 580 crank autobahn 180+ for 30minutes ~
roli1206
Greenie Member
the ecu can measure it if you change the scaling via winols + fp valve upgrade from a vag and bosch fuel sensor but changed it later for a custom rail because of making it more comfortable to work on the only damage was the cup broke once but that's also easy to upgrade for a roller setup
DatsunZ
Greenie Member
If you’re successfully using WinOLS and retrofit a HPFP from an Audi/Volkswagon/BMW that’s huge news to me that people in the community knew about this. You gotta share more if you can. This would allow true restructuring of the ECU data and a solution to fueling I didn’t know anyone had done for the platform.
Have any photos, write-ups, part numbers, DIY part specs to share?
roli1206
Greenie Member
the pump from mazda is a vw pump ea113 2liter golf gti and the roller setup you can just regurlarly buy from dozens of vendors i try to get some answers from Jens but i can't promise it he quite rarely shares deeper infos i can only tell what he did show me and what i've seen ..... but i try
https://www.bar-tek.com/de/rollenst...8mkQYSmMkSE9YlpQlMVQq9lcRoebowq0aAmZlEALw_wcB
can't tell how much or if machining is to do because Jens is a enginebuilder he often did stuff nobody knew about
Last edited by a moderator:
DatsunZ
Greenie Member
Okay I think I see what happened, a bit of an understanding error on my part. The VW EA113 HPFP internals being mentioned are the APR internals that are available for the MazdaSpeed because they were produced by Hitachi for both our platforms with minor exterior differences but the same internal specs. There is not a retrofit of an actual HPFP from a different vehicle (also this VW one was more expensive than a new one from Mazda, so not even worth it to save some $$$).
As for the roller bearing tappets that’s interesting to know that it can be retrofit, but I don’t know if there is anything to gain from that other than maybe some reliability and less wear and noise.
If I’m still mistaken let me know, but that’s what I gathered from some research based on the link provided.
As for the roller bearing tappets that’s interesting to know that it can be retrofit, but I don’t know if there is anything to gain from that other than maybe some reliability and less wear and noise.
If I’m still mistaken let me know, but that’s what I gathered from some research based on the link provided.
Similar threads
