72mm Throttle Body...and it works
- Thread starter Barett@ContriveDesignInnovations
- Start date
I think that part of the reason there is coolant in the throttle body is to improve engine operation when the ambient air temp is really cold. Not necessarily the throttle itself freezing but to try and get the air temp above -30 when it enters the combustion chamber.
You would definitely know more about this than me. Would you mind expounding a little bit so I can more fully understand? Have you done the TB coolant bypass? Do you recommend not doing it? What you said makes sense, but wouldn't the air be warm enough already by the time the coolant has warmed the throttle body? I plug my car in in the winter, so in my situation the coolant is already warmer than the air. For those who do not use a heater of some sort, does this still work? Only useful on cold starts, or is it effective still after the car has come up to temp?
I remember reading (on the other forum) of people being paranoid that their throttle would ice up and freeze open, and preventing this was the purpose of the throttle body coolant. Will Dawson (my tuner) told me he has never heard or seen this actually happen and that it was nonsense (thereby convincing me to do it on my car).
I've had mine bypassed for years in MI and have never had an issue even in the coldest of days. I don't think the TB freezing is a valid concern
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I think this would be more of a problem if you were spraying anything ahead of the throttle body that could cool the air well below dew point and then the air's moisture could freeze. Of course you should probably just turn off the meth in the winter.
I could also see a scenario if the throttle body got REALLY cold of the whole thing shrinking to a point that something bound up. I never have bypassed mine, mostly because I don't think it will buy me any real gains and I don't have to ever worry in cold temps. I don't think if I did that the butterfly would ever stick on me though.
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Lol dew point has more to do with humidity than air temperature. And if your air charge is at at 100% humidity then you have a whole different problem. Not so sure thats even possible unless you are spraying water into your engine... Even still its not possible to get below any dew point since it is the temperature at 100% humidity.
Im sure the throttle body has coolant lines running through it to aid in warming the engine up. A lot of cars in the past used to have a pipe coming off the exhaust manifold and piped to the air box using radiant heat to warm the intake air.
I have bypassed mine and had no problems spraying meth in -20 and -30 weather with boosted temps close to 0, you will not be able to freeze methanol i promise.
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True, but you can freeze all the moisture that the methanol has absorbed. Dew point is far more dynamic than you think it is. I have spent a good portion of my life studying the properties of moist air. All air is moist btw, at least on planet Earth. As you cool the air the relative humidity will rise until you start squeezing water out.
Dew point, condensation and ice formation are far more complex than you would think. That's not too say our cars will ever have an issue caused by a bypassed coolant line.
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Dew point, condensation and ice formation are far more complex than you would think. That's not too say our cars will ever have an issue caused by a bypassed coolant line.
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My experience which lead me to state that it is a cold weather drivability problem not a freezing up problem is from my time driving carborated cars, if it was cold as shit like teens or lower you had better let the car warm up a bit or the engine will run like shit. The car will run but it has dead spots and wont want to accelerate etc,
this was on two different cars both of which had carbs which had been remanufactured by holley themselves while i owned the vehicle so i would consider them to be top quality representation of carborator function.
Fuel injected cars where you can turn it on and drive away are a huge change, i have not bypassed my tb so i dont know how it would perform but the engine characteristics the few times i have driven my ms3 below zero make me think it wouldnt matter
this was on two different cars both of which had carbs which had been remanufactured by holley themselves while i owned the vehicle so i would consider them to be top quality representation of carborator function.
Fuel injected cars where you can turn it on and drive away are a huge change, i have not bypassed my tb so i dont know how it would perform but the engine characteristics the few times i have driven my ms3 below zero make me think it wouldnt matter
I'm not saying having a TB bypass in very cold weather means your TB will be frozen shut, but it will very likely make the servo motor work harder until things come up to temp. That wear and tear can be the difference between your TB lasting the life of the car, and needing to replace it. Electrical components don't like being over-worked. They'll generally heat up too much and melt internal components/wiring, etc.
Not really an issue for me in TX, but I think the above is why it's frowned upon in really cold weather.
Not really an issue for me in TX, but I think the above is why it's frowned upon in really cold weather.
Auto choke on both and it was still a bitch
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No it is not this at all
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No it is not this at all
Well, if you know what it is from a reputable source, please enlighten us. I repeated what's been said about the mod. Seems logical to me, but I'm open to having my understanding adjusted.
Also, CS isn't in a cold place... Like 40s all winter long and barely see any snow.
Anywho, I haven't noticed any issues but I am sure @Maisonvi will be a good test of this since he drives his car through the winter and in very cold and humid conditions.
This is something people really push in the mustang world. I always assumed that was for naturally aspirated vehicles. I guess if this is the largest resistance to flow in your system then it would matter a bit more but seeing as I am on a stock block and at its limits without pushing the BNR S4 I do not see it being worthwhile. Are there other reasons to change to this size TB?
Anywho, I haven't noticed any issues but I am sure @Maisonvi will be a good test of this since he drives his car through the winter and in very cold and humid conditions.
This is something people really push in the mustang world. I always assumed that was for naturally aspirated vehicles. I guess if this is the largest resistance to flow in your system then it would matter a bit more but seeing as I am on a stock block and at its limits without pushing the BNR S4 I do not see it being worthwhile. Are there other reasons to change to this size TB?
Gets cold as hell here in WI, but I only did the tb bypass a month ago or so, so I can't comment too much on it quite yet. No issues so far, though.
How's that S4 on a stock block?
I'm debating going S4 V 2 on stock block to keep the turbo nice and under stressed, but am worried about no power down low because of spool time.
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S3 or S4 are both great choices, for various reasons. Both will take you up to stock fueling limits - 370/380whp, so long as you have eth and/or methanol
S3: more responsive/K-04ish, so a blast around town. IMHO, the K04 is too quick-spooling, and the S3 is just about perfect - just a tad less. Maxes out at ~420whp with aux fueling, and that's on it's ragged edge, so I wouldn't run a tune like that for turbo or engine longevity. Justin (the FREEK) did and had cracked ringlands in 3 of 4 cylinders, IIRC. But he also was pushing the car very hard to find its limits on the S3. I ended up at 390/385 (in good weather), and it's a great sweet spot, if not a little on the high side. Tuning (torque onset and peak) is key, because like the K04, the S3 can make lots of tq very early = hard on rods. I also never WOT under 3k or at all in 6th. Produces an amazing power curve and feels like the turbo "the car should have come with."
S4: not as responsive, so it'll be more sluggish around town. Will easily take you to stock block fueling limits and far beyond, FWIH, maybe ~470whp or so on a built motor (please feel free to correct me, if you know otherwise). Because its boost threshold is higher and ramp-up/spool is slower, it's arguably easier on your rods just naturally, so you don't have to be so intentional on the tune regarding torque management/ramping up mitigation lower in the powerband. Also, if you build your motor and get aux fueling, this can take you well into the 450+whp range, so you don't need to, for instance, replace your turbo, like you might with to much more so with an S3 when you get built. At least not if you don't have your heart set on 500+.
Yeah I'm loving the s4. The s3 caps closer to 340 hp and I'm near 400 hp (corrected numbers from same dyno in Denver). The lag is very noticeable but like redline said naturally easier on your rods. It holds through redline.
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I'm very tempted to go this route, nice safe rods, good pull up top, I'm just wondering if I could get used to losing that kick in the ass at 3000 from the K04. The corksport turbo is also appealing for what I want out of the car, but I'm not sure I trust that they have all their issues with it sorted, although they told me the waste gate was changed to deal with the creep issue.
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