B12 Oil Control Rings soak ?

[Enki]

Probably PCV then, if its drinking that much oil through the piping. Or you have a broken ringland or something, but you'd think you'd notice it run worse like that.

 

[philip B]

Had that replaced with Damond’s pcv with the thier oil catch can setup and there pcv plate upgrade but I’ll take a look.
At this point I’m just doing process of elimination
-valve cover gasket because it is leaking in two major areas behind engine but not enough to drip on the ground but is seeping out and caking up.
-pcv is bad and possibly got a dud part
-piston oil rings leaking by or clogged possible maybe a soak , as far as I can see doesn’t look like it with the scope.
-valve stem seals are leaking and need possible replacement.
- turbo seals is nearing its life maybe and is just masked time for upgrade.
in that order lol

I’ll continue looking for possible oil leaks. main seal ect.

 

[philip B]

How much oil pressure in crank case is normal. Took the oil cap off while it was idling to kinda see. There was quite a bit of air just puffing out with the pistons going up and down and I put a paper towel over the fill hole to see how much oil would be splashing out so I’m not sure how much is normal if any.

 

[Enki]

This is way too much:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QelaFZHM1Kw

 

[philip B]

yea I have too much crank case pressure.
I have a thought. I have a slight bend in the hose going to the Damond Motorsports oil catch can on driver side from the pcv but it’s like a weird bend it make that portion of the hose flatten out to curve in such a manner it’s decreasing the ID of the tubing from the looks of it but not totally kink it.
It’s still pushing oil through to the catch can.

 

[DISIFTW]

How is your catch can routed?

 

[Crazycanadian]

yea I have too much crank case pressure.
I have a thought. I have a slight bend in the hose going to the Damond Motorsports oil catch can on driver side from the pcv but it’s like a weird bend it make that portion of the hose flatten out to curve in such a manner it’s decreasing the ID of the tubing from the looks of it but not totally kink it.
It’s still pushing oil through to the catch can.

Your compression numbers don't indicate a blow by issue causing crank case pressure issues.. Especially at idle... Do a proper leak down test, this will tell you if you have a blow by issue... I've seen a few motors with good compression numbers, but fail a leak down test.. It's usually cylinders 2 and 3 that get the hottest and have issues..

It's normal to have oil pass through the vent side of the PCV and work it's way through the intake.. It gets sucked in from the inlet side of the turbo and it's cumulative over time.. Generally this can be used as a sign you might have blow by issues.. You're pictures look relatively clean/normal based on what I've seen from based on vehicles without and reported issues and running good vs vehicles with blow by issues..

B12 and other chemical solutions work on "soft" carbon.. That's not the type of carbon issues these motors have.. The hard carbon build up has to be mechanically removed.. Oil control rings are common to plug up, only way to fix it is tear down the motor and go through it.. Chances are your cylinder walls and rings are glazed, along with some carbon build up plugging the control rings.. This wont cause blow by issues, but it will allow extra oil to pass by the rings and burn off.. You aren't burning huge amounts of oil so I wouldn't expect it to show up on the plugs like you might expect..

The carbon build up you see from the boro scope on the pistons is normal, nothing wrong with it, don't concern yourself with trying to "clean it" combustion is dirty, there will always be a small level of build up.. You're scope isn't good enough to get a good sense of the condition of the cylinder walls..

The PCV test you performed is flawed.. You're getting a lot of "spray" and air movement because the chain is rotating right under the cap.. If you crack the cap loose while the engine is running, generally it'll bouncy around, possibly fall off.. Removing the oil cap is a test done to see if the PCV valve is stuck, pulling vacuum all the time.. It's not used to estimate crank case pressure at idle... Crank case pressure is built up as a function of cylinder pressure.. At idle this is very low, it's impossible to test unless you are loaded at wide open throttle..

 

[philip B]

How is your catch can routed?

Exactly like Damond’s stage one location routing.
Took of intake manifold to confirm the tubing was fine and oil catch can was indeed working with vacuum from intake manifold as it was intended.

 

[philip B]

Your compression numbers don't indicate a blow by issue causing crank case pressure issues.. Especially at idle... Do a proper leak down test, this will tell you if you have a blow by issue... I've seen a few motors with good compression numbers, but fail a leak down test.. It's usually cylinders 2 and 3 that get the hottest and have issues..

It's normal to have oil pass through the vent side of the PCV and work it's way through the intake.. It gets sucked in from the inlet side of the turbo and it's cumulative over time.. Generally this can be used as a sign you might have blow by issues.. You're pictures look relatively clean/normal based on what I've seen from based on vehicles without and reported issues and running good vs vehicles with blow by issues..

B12 and other chemical solutions work on "soft" carbon.. That's not the type of carbon issues these motors have.. The hard carbon build up has to be mechanically removed.. Oil control rings are common to plug up, only way to fix it is tear down the motor and go through it.. Chances are your cylinder walls and rings are glazed, along with some carbon build up plugging the control rings.. This wont cause blow by issues, but it will allow extra oil to pass by the rings and burn off.. You aren't burning huge amounts of oil so I wouldn't expect it to show up on the plugs like you might expect..

The carbon build up you see from the boro scope on the pistons is normal, nothing wrong with it, don't concern yourself with trying to "clean it" combustion is dirty, there will always be a small level of build up.. You're scope isn't good enough to get a good sense of the condition of the cylinder walls..

The PCV test you performed is flawed.. You're getting a lot of "spray" and air movement because the chain is rotating right under the cap.. If you crack the cap loose while the engine is running, generally it'll bouncy around, possibly fall off.. Removing the oil cap is a test done to see if the PCV valve is stuck, pulling vacuum all the time.. It's not used to estimate crank case pressure at idle... Crank case pressure is built up as a function of cylinder pressure.. At idle this is very low, it's impossible to test unless you are loaded at wide open throttle..

thanks for the input and reassurance on the oil cap test lol i did not seem to sure of it myself.

I just bought a leak down tester kit so I will be doing that. As for the PCV vent on the valve cover to intake I noticed no oil residue whatsoever in the hose. I even pulled it off while in idle and it was pulling vaccum in the valve cover so it seemed good. Oil catch can got about 2 tbs of oil within 500-600 miles.

I did get an oil cap breather to see if it will help relive crank case pressure if it actually is to excessive.
As of right now the valve cover from what I can tell is definitely leaking.
Right behind the engine block above alternator stuck my finger down on one of the edges on the block there and came back with wet oil and there are slight oil paths coming from the valve cover down the engine block on left passenger side they are so hard to see that it looks like it has been just slowly seeping out and most of it being evaporated from the block heat.
Going to replace valve cover gasket to see if that helps minimize oil consumption and ride on and I’ll update this thread with that.
I also see the vvt casing is bolted and siliconed to the side of the block hope oil is not coming from there.

 

[Cold Lotion]

there are slight oil paths coming from the valve cover down the engine block on left passenger side they are so hard to see that it looks like it has been just slowly seeping out and most of it being evaporated from the block heat.
Going to replace valve cover gasket to see if that helps minimize oil consumption and ride on and I’ll update this thread with that.

When replacing the valve cover gasket, dabs of high temp RTV silicone sealant need to be placed on the head where it meets the timing cover, also the cam hump corners, to prevent the type of leak you are describing. These are the spots on the gasket that need help:


Shouldn't be enough leaking to cause the type of oil loss you're complaining about though.

 

[philip B]

Understood.
Just did a cold leak down test I know it’s not reality because it’s not warm but just wanted to see how the percentages looked with intake manifold off and being able to hear any leaking.


Cyl 1- 12%

Cyl 2- 6-7%

Cyl 3- 0-1%

Cyl 4- 12-13%

surprisingly Cyl 3 had the lowest compression when I did a compression test 3 weeks ago at 175 so I don’t know why it was the best.
These numbers don’t seem to bad regarding it’s cold and most if not all oil has drained back down now that it’s been sitting for 2 days.
Cylinder 4 I did hear air coming from valve cover with the oil cap off so I’m not sure if that could indicate some stuck rings.
Cylinder 1 I could hear the air from pcv as with the other cylinders.

PICs-Cyl 1 through 4 in that order.
Used 75 psi cause I have a tiny compressor that loses air quickly at 100 psi.
75 psi cheat sheet is in pic.

 

[philip B]

Understood.
Just did a cold leak down test I know it’s not reality because it’s not warm but just wanted to see how the percentages looked with intake manifold off and being able to hear any leaking.


Cyl 1- 12%

Cyl 2- 6-7%

Cyl 3- 0-1%

Cyl 4- 12-13%

surprisingly Cyl 3 had the lowest compression when I did a compression test 3 weeks ago at 175 so I don’t know why it was the best.
These numbers don’t seem to bad regarding it’s cold and most if not all oil has drained back down now that it’s been sitting for 2 days.
Cylinder 4 I did hear air coming from valve cover with the oil cap off so I’m not sure if that could indicate some stuck rings.
Cylinder 1 I could hear the air from pcv as with the other cylinders.

PICs-Cyl 1 through 4 in that order.
Used 75 psi cause I have a tiny compressor that loses air quickly at 100 psi.
75 psi cheat sheet is in pic.

I will redo this test once teaching is back together with a warm engine to verify these numbers.

 

[philip B]

To conclude this thread.
I had taken off the intake mani and the valve cover.
Did some porting on the intake because why not it was off again and I did another intake valve cleaning beacuse it looked like it never did get cleaned which it did 500 miles ago. Did some leak down testing nothing alarming with engine cold as posted.
Put everything back together with new valve cover gasket and warmed engine up to temp and did hot compression test and leak down. All 180-190 compression and leak down less than 10%. Finding TDC on these cylinders is a pain. Like TDC on cylinder 3 was like 3 degrees less than the actual max height the piston would go according to my metal stick in the spark plug hole. Either way I was able to get less than 10% on leak down on cylinders. So if my car is only burning a normal amount oil and by that I mean a small amount that’s considered normal by other speed owners then an oil leak or two would just exacerbate the assumed oil consumption.
I have read a lot on Reddit with people complaining that between the alternator and engine block that spot on the timing cover seems to be a prominent weak point. I’ve had wet oil there every time I checked underneath the timing covers edge but it’s not enough to drip but enough coat black soot all over the alternator and pulley around it. I have cleaned up the area and will keep an eye on it see if I can visually see oil leaking past that seal and it’s time for a VVT replacement or if the new valve cover gasket was what was leaking.
I’ll also put 5w-40 just to test if for whatever reason my oil consumptions lessens drastically than maybe it still something internally leaking that is masked.
If I can just get to 3000-5,000 miles without adding oil to get there then that’s all I need.
Thanks for input and advice received.

 

[Crazycanadian]

I'd expect almost any engine to burn about 1 liter of oil within 3,000 miles... All engines burn a small bit of oil as part of cylinder lubrication..

a couple of table spoon of oil in you catch can is Normal... If/when you start driving when ambient temps dip around 40 deg and below start checking your catch can every fill up.. you'll notice a lot of condensation build up.. I run dual catch cans.. one for each side of the PCV system.. The PCV valve side(vacuum side) catches some oil, similar amounts to yours... My vent side doesn't really get any oil build up.. but when temps dip, both sides fill up with condensation..

If you do an extra vent on your valve cover make sure it's got a check valve.. Otherwise you'll throw lean codes..