yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
PM’d ya
Building Anna
- Thread starter yeet123
- Start date
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
UPDATE
I fucked up…
(This explains why I was asking for recommendations for crank pulley holders lol)
I wanted to use my noodle a bit and make my own crank pulley holder tool. I had good intentions but it just didn’t pan out that well.
So yeah. The bolts I used were grade 5, which I thought would be strong enough given the load was split between both of them, but they obviously weren’t.
And unfortunately when the bolts gave the crank pulley sheared out the alignment hole on the timing cover:
As well as moved the pulley’s 20th tooth out of alignment with the crank position sensor.
SO, ordered a new timing cover, crank bolt/cam bolts, cam/crank friction washers and front main seal since I have to redo timing and replace all the washers.
Definitely mad at myself for messing up like this but it’s not the end of the world. It’ll set me back a couple weeks while I wait for the timing cover & everything else to be delivered. Glad I didn’t leave the TDC bolt or cam plate in because if I snapped a cam or ruined the threads in the blind plug I’d be way worse off.
On the plus side I’ll be a pro at timing this engine by the time everything’s over lol. Hopefully just got this last major hurdle before I can start getting her ready to be put back in the car!
I fucked up…
(This explains why I was asking for recommendations for crank pulley holders lol)
I wanted to use my noodle a bit and make my own crank pulley holder tool. I had good intentions but it just didn’t pan out that well.
So yeah. The bolts I used were grade 5, which I thought would be strong enough given the load was split between both of them, but they obviously weren’t.
And unfortunately when the bolts gave the crank pulley sheared out the alignment hole on the timing cover:
As well as moved the pulley’s 20th tooth out of alignment with the crank position sensor.
SO, ordered a new timing cover, crank bolt/cam bolts, cam/crank friction washers and front main seal since I have to redo timing and replace all the washers.
Definitely mad at myself for messing up like this but it’s not the end of the world. It’ll set me back a couple weeks while I wait for the timing cover & everything else to be delivered. Glad I didn’t leave the TDC bolt or cam plate in because if I snapped a cam or ruined the threads in the blind plug I’d be way worse off.
On the plus side I’ll be a pro at timing this engine by the time everything’s over lol. Hopefully just got this last major hurdle before I can start getting her ready to be put back in the car!
Cfoldone
Silver Member
If inventory is zero on cover, you can do with out the alignment hole boss area being broken. As long as cover has no through crack for oil leakage. The alignment "hole" is nothing but that, no force is necessary to keep alignment correct. The crank bolt is strong enough to withstand the bolt torquing spec. The damper/timing alignment must use the special holder to keep it from moving around while you twist bolt to compress damper against all sprockets and the diamond lock washers. Manual states use a flywheel locking method; done twice that way while on engine stand with both stop bolt and flywheel locked. Twice in car so only crank stop bolt was holding crank. The holder tool also keeps the damper from turning causing the other sprockets from moving timing chain which is why the cam plate is to align cams in sync only. You lock it all as you tighten crank bolt. PIA definitely.My method of long lever and my body weight/ ft lbs to rotation angle is around 250 maybe even more. You are going to have to get a angle gauge for your 1/2 or 3/4 breaker bar too.
Last edited:
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
Yeah I thought about just reusing the timing cover but since the crank pulley bolt moved outside the limit of the crank position sensor I was gonna have to undo everything anyways, might as well replace the timing cover and make it pretty (apparently it’s only a week and a half out from shipping so not too bad) And yeah once I get a legit holder tool I’ll probably leave the TDC pin and cam plate in just to ensure everything stays in time.
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
Good to know for sure, scratch what I said before then. Would you say keeping the TDC pin in during torque is fine or take that out as well? Thanks for the help!!
I just done my vvt and I put a bolt in the pulley along with the timing pin and plate installed for the first 70ft lbs. Then marked the 90% mark and removed all the timing tools and finishes tightening the crank pulley bolt.
I actually made a crank holding tool for doing this and it worked perfectly. Once it was tightened I inserted the timing pin and spun the crank around until it hit the pin. Checked to see if the timing plate would go in and then looked at the crank sensor to see if it was able to be lined up. Hope this helps you out! I would let you borrow my tool I made to hold the crank but it is YUGE so unless you're near me then it wouldn't be worth it probably.
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
No worries lol I appreciate the help man!
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
Alright guys I’m kinda stumped and need some advice.
Round 2 of tightening the crank pulley bolt was still unsuccessful. Somehow the cams moved out of TDC alignment relative to the crank.
Whenever the cams are at TDC the 20th tooth is out of alignment with the CKPS, as seen below:
But somehow the crank at TDC lines up with the CKPS no problem:
I turned the engine over a couple times and pistons aren’t hitting valves or anything like that but obviously the engine’s out of time so I’ll need to tear everything down again.
I’m just not sure what I did wrong to make the cams somehow move while the crank stayed in place.
I ensured both were at TDC prior to torquing the crank bolt, removed all TDC hardware, then torqued the bolt. I left the M6 bolt in the crank pulley for alignment and it still screwed in afterwards.
My thought process is if both the cams and crank were being torqued down at the same time, if the cams rotated like that then the crank would have rotated the same amount.
Not really sure what caused this and therefore how to ensure it doesn’t happen again, anyone have any ideas?
Round 2 of tightening the crank pulley bolt was still unsuccessful. Somehow the cams moved out of TDC alignment relative to the crank.
Whenever the cams are at TDC the 20th tooth is out of alignment with the CKPS, as seen below:
But somehow the crank at TDC lines up with the CKPS no problem:
I turned the engine over a couple times and pistons aren’t hitting valves or anything like that but obviously the engine’s out of time so I’ll need to tear everything down again.
I’m just not sure what I did wrong to make the cams somehow move while the crank stayed in place.
I ensured both were at TDC prior to torquing the crank bolt, removed all TDC hardware, then torqued the bolt. I left the M6 bolt in the crank pulley for alignment and it still screwed in afterwards.
My thought process is if both the cams and crank were being torqued down at the same time, if the cams rotated like that then the crank would have rotated the same amount.
Not really sure what caused this and therefore how to ensure it doesn’t happen again, anyone have any ideas?
The way I jut did mine is in this order.
#1 install cams and alignment plate on the end.
#2 Install alignment pin with the crank turned until it hits it.
#3 install vvt stuff (chain, tensioner, cam sprockets but loose still, etc) tightening exhaust cam first and then intake cam as to keep timing chain nice and tight.
#4 Torque cams sprockets with new bolts down to 55ft-lbs. (I keep timing plate installed just make sure you hold cams with a wrench pulling evenly against the torque wrench as cams could break if you don't do it right)
#5 Check that crank is still against the pin, and timing plate is in.
#6 install last friction washer along with timing cover.
#7 Put crank pulley on with new bolt and put small bolt through pulley into the timing cover.
#8 Install crank sensor and align with the 20th tooth.
#9 Tighten crank pulley bolt to initial 75ft-lbs.
#10 Double check that timing tools are all in correct position still.
#11 Remove timing tools and small bolt from crank pulley.
#12 Mark crank bolt on its face at 12 o'clock position and crank pulley next to bolt at 3 oclock position.
#13 With use of a crank pulley holding tool, crank bolt until the mark on the bolt reaches the mark on the pulley or slightly past.
#14 Install timing cam plate and crank pin and check that crank bumps against the pin and that the cam plate will still slide in. (Sometimes takes some wiggling with a wrench on each cam to get it into place.
#15 Keeping in the timed position, ensure that the crank pulley's 20th tooth still lines up to the cps.
#16 drink drink of choice and take a breathe of relief lol
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
Yeah the only thing I didn’t do from that procedure was keeping the timing hardware in during the initial 75ft lb, so maybe it was thrown off during that? But I still had my buddy counter holding the crank during so I’m not sure what was up. I’m going to put some ARP ultra torque lube on the bolt next time to see if that reduces how much force it takes to turn it.
I guess since it's a degree value not a torque value that would be ok. I would still leave the timing tools in otherwise it can throw something off
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
Alright boys and girls we’re back. Been a little while due to work and life but was able to wrench a little this weekend and made some significant progress.
Was able to FINALLY finish timing the engine and tighten the crank pulley bolt down while keeping everything in time (been a month in the making)
How I did it:
1. Tighten cams down, maintain good tension on chain (keep TDC plate and pin in, just make sure you have a strong counterhold)
2. Once timing cover’s on along with pulley, I lubed the crank bolt with ARP Ultra-Torque lube to help reduce the amount of force needed to get to the 90* mark.
3. Leave timing plate, TDC pin, and tiny M6 pulley alignment bolt in for the first 75ft lbs (counter hold crank pulley to keep from shearing timing cover hole)
4. I then took all TDC tools out and turned the engine over a couple times to make sure everything was still in time/bound together. I then rotated the crank pulley around to where the holder tool would rest against the ground (and jack stand in this case) optimally.
5. Tighten the crank bolt the next 90*, just make sure to listen/look for any wack shit going on either with the holder tool, crank pulley, etc.
I found that having someone else counter hold the pulley wasn’t working too well so I took that variable out and just used a heavy ass car lol. I think it’s just hard to match the amount of force both people are exerting so things slip/move.
I will say I am VERY glad I can finally move on lol, got the valve cover and water pump on. Now onto the rest!!
Was able to FINALLY finish timing the engine and tighten the crank pulley bolt down while keeping everything in time (been a month in the making)
How I did it:
1. Tighten cams down, maintain good tension on chain (keep TDC plate and pin in, just make sure you have a strong counterhold)
2. Once timing cover’s on along with pulley, I lubed the crank bolt with ARP Ultra-Torque lube to help reduce the amount of force needed to get to the 90* mark.
3. Leave timing plate, TDC pin, and tiny M6 pulley alignment bolt in for the first 75ft lbs (counter hold crank pulley to keep from shearing timing cover hole)
4. I then took all TDC tools out and turned the engine over a couple times to make sure everything was still in time/bound together. I then rotated the crank pulley around to where the holder tool would rest against the ground (and jack stand in this case) optimally.
5. Tighten the crank bolt the next 90*, just make sure to listen/look for any wack shit going on either with the holder tool, crank pulley, etc.
I found that having someone else counter hold the pulley wasn’t working too well so I took that variable out and just used a heavy ass car lol. I think it’s just hard to match the amount of force both people are exerting so things slip/move.
I will say I am VERY glad I can finally move on lol, got the valve cover and water pump on. Now onto the rest!!
Last edited:
First off, I'm jealous how clean your motor is lol Anyway though, secondly, did you double check all the tdc stuff after final tq? I didn't read or missed it on whether you did that. Glad it is coming together for you man!
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
Yep! After torquing I spun it around two complete rotations, put the TDC pin & cam plate in, and made sure the 20th tooth still lined up with the CKPS (along with good tension on the chain). Everything checked out that time and then I checked it all over once more just to be safe and everything still looked good so I’m gonna send it lolFirst off, I'm jealous how clean your motor is lol Anyway though, secondly, did you double check all the tdc stuff after final tq? I didn't read or missed it on whether you did that. Glad it is coming together for you man!
That's awesome man good luck with it!
yeet123
Greenie N00B Member
Alrighty boys we’re moving now! Just been cruising through getting all the accessories on, nothing too crazy. Gotta finish a couple odds and ends then I’ll be ready to get the clutch & trans on then get the whole thing back in the car!
Making progress!
Making progress!
