Cas' 800+ or Bust Build

[Redline]

Makes me sad that I live so far away because they welcomed me with open arms when I was up visiting. Brings a tear to my eye that I don't have friends like that down in Cinci

At least it was done in the name of science haha

Indeed. And local experimentation/figuring out what works is awesome. I chose the path of looking at the same thing exclusively from a global perspective (the other forum) and going by the advice of well-established tuners who'd figured out all that stuff. This was mostly due to necessity, like I said, because we didn't have a lot of engine tear-downs/swaps that I could learn from. That's why I chose Justin: I knew following his advice/using his calibration would avail me the practical experience of one of the best/most knowledgeable MZR DISI tuners in the world, and that he wouldn't lead me astray regarding hard parts/setup.

 

[Realgib3]

When Cas talks about us experimenting, personal experience with ZZB, parts, fabrication, etc, we're talking about 2009, 10, 11, etc before there was any of the cookie cutter setups that work today. Maybe I'll make a thread kinda of outlining the history of everything, so it all makes more sense here.

 

[Redline]

When Cas talks about us experimenting, personal experience with ZZB, parts, fabrication, etc, we're talking about 2009, 10, 11, etc before there was any of the cookie cutter setups that work today. Maybe I'll make a thread kinda of outlining the history of everything, so it all makes more sense here.

That'd be awesome. Feel free to respond in the tuning thread I created, or create your own. I'd love to hear your insights.

 

[alexwlwsn]

When Cas talks about us experimenting, personal experience with ZZB, parts, fabrication, etc, we're talking about 2009, 10, 11, etc before there was any of the cookie cutter setups that work today. Maybe I'll make a thread kinda of outlining the history of everything, so it all makes more sense here.

I just creeped your stuff on MSF and I must say, I am a fan! I ran out of time to read but that o-ring job you did on your block has me very intrigued.

 

[Realgib3]

End of the thread derail finally. Sorry about that Cas.

http://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?th...stories-of-progress-and-lols.3344/#post-27108

 

[CMajor]

End of the thread derail finally. Sorry about that Cas.

http://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?th...stories-of-progress-and-lols.3344/#post-27108

THANK GOD....haha it's all good .

Back to my car, the last week or so I had been noticing some weird noises when I shut off the car like things were rattling around. I finally got some time today to take a look at it. For one I put my hand on the engine and gave it a few solid pushes. Sure enough it was moving and it sounded like the noise was coming from my RMM. Jacked my car up and it was scary loose. I placed a socket on one side and I could turn it with my hand. I tightened it down, tried to move the engine and it seems like that fixed it. I went ahead and checked the PMM too which was good. I didn't have time to take my battery/ battery box out for the TMM so that's on the list for this weekend or maybe even tomorrow. My engine mounts were the only thing that I didn't check when undoing everything that was done to it by the shop I'm not going to name. All the vibes could of vibrated it loose which is a possibility. I've learned my lesson with letting others work on my car.

 

[alexwlwsn]

THANK GOD....haha it's all good .

Back to my car, the last week or so I had been noticing some weird noises when I shut off the car like things were rattling around. I finally got some time today to take a look at it. For one I put my hand on the engine and gave it a few solid pushes. Sure enough it was moving and it sounded like the noise was coming from my RMM. Jacked my car up and it was scary loose. I placed a socket on one side and I could turn it with my hand. I tightened it down, tried to move the engine and it seems like that fixed it. I went ahead and checked the PMM too which was good. I didn't have time to take my battery/ battery box out for the TMM so that's on the list for this weekend or maybe even tomorrow. My engine mounts were the only thing that I didn't check when undoing everything that was done to it by the shop I'm not going to name. All the vibes could of vibrated it loose which is a possibility. I've learned my lesson with letting others work on my car.

Same thing happened to me, I was commenting to myself how the BSD vibes were really not bad at all and I come to find that my PMM was crazy loose. Tightened it up and I got my massage chair back. Good thing I was just still breaking the motor in or else a pull on it could've been bad.

 

[CMajor]

Same thing happened to me, I was commenting to myself how the BSD vibes were really not bad at all and I come to find that my PMM was crazy loose. Tightened it up and I got my massage chair back. Good thing I was just still breaking the motor in or else a pull on it could've been bad.

I did multiple pulls like this....lol. The PMM is probably a bit worse to have loose though than the RMM. Both are bad but I'm glad neither of us ran into serious issues!

 

[CMajor]

Well had some fun over the weekend. I went spiraling down the path that @Realgib3 posted up in his build thread and trying to gain some knowledge in all the links he posted, that references even more links when you start digging into them. No doubt it's going to take me at least a month to read all of that but very interesting to say the least.

Also ran into some issues with my car over the weekend. Now before anyone flames me, I bought these JBR parts when I was a noob and didn't know anything (It's arguable that I still don't know anything). One of my camber arms snapped at a weld point causing my wheel to cave in and make me look like a stance bro.

I now have a nice ring around the inner rim of my wheel from it rubbing against to strut. Weird thing is I didn't even hear this happening, probably because my car is so damn loud. I also got a metal splinter from rubbing the rim of my wheel to make it feel better.

I emailed JBR to see what they would do about this, here's what I said and what they said in reply. I asked for a refund, didn't think I would get it but worth a try. I sent them my order confirmation number and currently waiting on a reply.

Oh yeah and I threw one of my stockers on while I wait for my new SPC camber arms to show up. Bought some off a guy up in Cleveland. I was going to get them over-nighted but I figured I could run the stocker for a couple of days.

 

[CMajor]

Major Update:
Well some of you may have expected this post at some point but I went ZZB. A little background before I get to how it happened. A couple of days before I changed some settings in my WOT box because it didn't seem to be working correctly for flat-foot shifting. Basically I would go to FFS and literally my car would fall on its face. I was thinking maybe I was hitting fuel cut or throttle close but it turned out somehow my settings didn't save correctly or got reset. For any of you that aren't familiar with the WOT box, it cuts ignition instead of fuel between shifts when you FFS which keeps your turbo spooled better. You set the duration for how long it cuts ignition and that value was around 2400ms from some reason. Meaning it would cut ignition for 2.4 seconds in between shifts. I had set it to 75ms but for whatever reason that didn't get saved the first time. Now the second time it seemed to be working slightly better but every FFS I would get some slight boost creep, only up to 29 psi when I'm targetting 28. So to the actual event, last Thursday on my way to work there was some traffic and naturally when it cleared I went WOT. Now I went to FFS from 3rd to 4th, first time in those gears since the change, and my RPMs dipped like normal but then shot up. I got some crazy boost creep that hit 32 psi in basically a second and got 9.8* of knock. I heard an awfully loud metal on metal noise come from my engine and thought for sure I had just vented my block but there was no oil trail behind my car. I was super close to work so I went ahead and drove it the rest of the way there. Probably a bad idea in hind sight to keep driving but oh well can't dwell on that now. Took a video when I got to work and you can hear the depression sinking in at the end of the video with my huge sigh hahah.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/HaiTE7Gx7hM
Got my car towed home the next day and now she sits in my garage awaiting a heart transplant.

I called my dad up and told him what happened so we made a plan that I would fly down on Saturday and drive back the 1969 Camaro that we restored on Sunday. So I can't say that I'm mad about that haha. It's still in his name right now because of insurance but when I get back on my feet after paying for this engagement ring then I'll take the car over in my name so I can get full coverage on it. But here she is

I made an 8 and half hour drive from Mississippi back to Ohio in this car. It actually rides better than my speed so it really wasn't a bad trip, just boring because the radio wasn't working for some reason. We have an aftermarket radio in the glove box to keep the original look in the dash area.

For my plans with the speed, I'm going to pull the engine in my garage and tear it down to see what happened to it. If the block is still good, it's going to get bored, honed and sleeved. I do plan on still building my car so no part out, well maybe a slight part out on stuff I don't want anymore. I may be upgrading to a 6466 like my original plan and possible going to PI over my 6th port setup. I figure I can make most of my money back that I put into them which will help fund the start of the build. As far as internals, I haven't worked out all the specifics but this is the small list that I have so far:

Manley I-Beams with the upgraded 625 bolts, good for ~1000 crank hp
I'm leaning towards Wiseco high compression pistons, I need to finish discussing that with @Realgib3 before proceeding with that route
1/2" head studs with some porting/honing work on the intake/exhaust sides
HD wrist pins
Clevite bearings
6466
JMF w/ PI, maybe 16 fabworks intake mani if they ever finish testing it
Some sort of clutch that will hold this power, haven't researched it yet
Wider wheels so I can burn more rubber when I spin
Probably the most important mod is a new license plate, I didn't actually live up to the "ITHROW" but close enough

I hadn't finished planning everything out yet since obviously wasn't planning on the motor pooping out so a lot of things are up in the air right now. Any who, I'm mad at myself for not listening to my car but life goes on and I'll deal with my expensive mistake. Just to be clear, I don't blame Mark for any of this. God knows his tune has probably saved my motor more than once with the way I beat on my car haha. Any suggestions on a route to take would be cool if you guys have any ideas with my power goals in mind.

 

[Maisonvi]

its a 69' Camaro going to be your winter car in Ohio? Because that is a nice looking car, and I cant approve of that decision.

Sorry to hear about you killing the motor, but with what you were running at, you had to know it was coming.

 

[alexwlwsn]

I'm excited now to see your updates on the build!

I vote to go PI and never look back.

 

[CMajor]

its a 69' Camaro going to be your winter car in Ohio? Because that is a nice looking car, and I cant approve of that decision.

Sorry to hear about you killing the motor, but with what you were running at, you had to know it was coming.

Haha sorry I should of been more clear. It'll be my daily until it starts snowing then I'm borrowing my girlfriend's, dad's company car. It's a 2012 Honda Civic, he has three of them and one isn't being driven right now. I just didn't want to call him and be like hey I need a car for 2-3 months so I went and picked up the Camaro. The plan is to pull the engine in the speed and then pull the Camaro in the garage. Trust me I hate that it's even sitting outside in nice weather. I contemplated buying an extra garage in my apartment complex but that's still up in the air. Someone else said the exact same thing you did on MSF about the Camaro, I didn't think to explain that part of the plan hahah.
[doublepost=1478183022][/doublepost]

I'm excited now to see your updates on the build!

I vote to go PI and never look back.

I'm eyeing @etipp98's setup that he has for sale but I need to save some more money first before buying anything. He has a gen 2 6466 and JMF with PI which would be perfect for what I want to do.

 

[Redline]

Major Update:
Well some of you may have expected this post at some point but I went ZZB. A little background before I get to how it happened. A couple of days before I changed some settings in my WOT box because it didn't seem to be working correctly for flat-foot shifting. Basically I would go to FFS and literally my car would fall on its face. I was thinking maybe I was hitting fuel cut or throttle close but it turned out somehow my settings didn't save correctly or got reset. For any of you that aren't familiar with the WOT box, it cuts ignition instead of fuel between shifts when you FFS which keeps your turbo spooled better. You set the duration for how long it cuts ignition and that value was around 2400ms from some reason. Meaning it would cut ignition for 2.4 seconds in between shifts. I had set it to 75ms but for whatever reason that didn't get saved the first time. Now the second time it seemed to be working slightly better but every FFS I would get some slight boost creep, only up to 29 psi when I'm targetting 28. So to the actual event, last Thursday on my way to work there was some traffic and naturally when it cleared I went WOT. Now I went to FFS from 3rd to 4th, first time in those gears since the change, and my RPMs dipped like normal but then shot up. I got some crazy boost creep that hit 32 psi in basically a second and got 9.8* of knock. I heard an awfully loud metal on metal noise come from my engine and thought for sure I had just vented my block but there was no oil trail behind my car. I was super close to work so I went ahead and drove it the rest of the way there. Probably a bad idea in hind sight to keep driving but oh well can't dwell on that now. Took a video when I got to work and you can hear the depression sinking in at the end of the video with my huge sigh hahah.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/HaiTE7Gx7hM
Got my car towed home the next day and now she sits in my garage awaiting a heart transplant.


I called my dad up and told him what happened so we made a plan that I would fly down on Saturday and drive back the 1969 Camaro that we restored on Sunday. So I can't say that I'm mad about that haha. It's still in his name right now because of insurance but when I get back on my feet after paying for this engagement ring then I'll take the car over in my name so I can get full coverage on it. But here she is

I made an 8 and half hour drive from Mississippi back to Ohio in this car. It actually rides better than my speed so it really wasn't a bad trip, just boring because the radio wasn't working for some reason. We have an aftermarket radio in the glove box to keep the original look in the dash area.


For my plans with the speed, I'm going to pull the engine in my garage and tear it down to see what happened to it. If the block is still good, it's going to get bored, honed and sleeved. I do plan on still building my car so no part out, well maybe a slight part out on stuff I don't want anymore. I may be upgrading to a 6466 like my original plan and possible going to PI over my 6th port setup. I figure I can make most of my money back that I put into them which will help fund the start of the build. As far as internals, I haven't worked out all the specifics but this is the small list that I have so far:

Manley I-Beams with the upgraded 625 bolts, good for ~1000 crank hp
I'm leaning towards Wiseco high compression pistons, I need to finish discussing that with @Realgib3 before proceeding with that route
1/2" head studs with some porting/honing work on the intake/exhaust sides
HD wrist pins
Clevite bearings
6466
JMF w/ PI, maybe 16 fabworks intake mani if they ever finish testing it
Some sort of clutch that will hold this power, haven't researched it yet
Wider wheels so I can burn more rubber when I spin
Probably the most important mod is a new license plate, I didn't actually live up to the "ITHROW" but close enough

I hadn't finished planning everything out yet since obviously wasn't planning on the motor pooping out so a lot of things are up in the air right now. Any who, I'm mad at myself for not listening to my car but life goes on and I'll deal with my expensive mistake. Just to be clear, I don't blame Mark for any of this. God knows his tune has probably saved my motor more than once with the way I beat on my car haha. Any suggestions on a route to take would be cool if you guys have any ideas with my power goals in mind.

Dang, sucks. GLWB! Were you doing all of that FFS on stock clutch, out of curiosity? Also, If it were me, due to the superior flow/distribution per clylinder, why not go FoST IM instead? Is it because of wanting 1 PI/runner? If so, you could always just spray a metric crapton of methanol. So you were on a 6266 when this happened?

 

[CMajor]

Dang, sucks. GLWB! Were you doing all of that FFS on stock clutch, out of curiosity? Also, If it were me, due to the superior flow/distribution per clylinder, why not go FoST IM instead? Is it because of wanting 1 PI/runner? If so, you could always just spray a metric crapton of methanol. So you were on a 6266 when this happened?

Yes to your question about FFS, I wonder if my clutch partially slipped during those pulls that I got boost creep. That's a possibility on the FoST IM, I'll give that some thought for sure. Not really dead set on anything at the moment and for single runners, that's a maybe haha. Yep I was on the 6266. I was right at 500whp and 400wtq so I knew I was living on the edge, my balls just got too big and my car decided to run them over to knock me down a peg. My only regret is not being able to race a couple locals that think their cars are the shit.

 

[Redline]

Yes to your question about FFS, I wonder if my clutch partially slipped during those pulls that I got boost creep. That's a possibility on the FoST IM, I'll give that some thought for sure. Not really dead set on anything at the moment and for single runners, that's a maybe haha. Yep I was on the 6266. I was right at 500whp and 400wtq so I knew I was living on the edge, my balls just got too big and my car decided to run them over to knock me down a peg. My only regret is not being able to race a couple locals that think their cars are the shit.

Yeah, it's the whole risk/reward thing. Being @ 380/380 when I went methanol, Justin decided to keep me right where I was in terms of power levels, telling me that at that point, risk/reward starts skyrocketing (on a BNR S3). I'm actually quite happy at my power level and spraying 12.8GPH (100%) has actually cleaned my engine out and restored compression! LOL.

Anyways, I'm really curious for your teardown. Particularly, I'd like to see your ringlands and rods. You were running supplemental PI and in-tank eth only, right (no WMI)? My car is gulping several forms of alky for the safety benefits (among other things, haha).

 

[CMajor]

Yeah, it's the whole risk/reward thing. Being @ 380/380 when I went methanol, Justin decided to keep me right where I was in terms of power levels, telling me that at that point, risk/reward starts skyrocketing (on a BNR S3). I'm actually quite happy at my power level and spraying 12.8GPH (100%) has actually cleaned my engine out and restored compression! LOL.

Anyways, I'm really curious for your teardown. Particularly, I'd like to see your ringlands and rods. You were running supplemental PI and in-tank eth only, right (no WMI)? My car is gulping several forms of alky for the safety benefits (among other things, haha).

Yeah I asked Mark to push it pretty far and the tune was solid it was just me being an idiot with the WOT box stuff haha. Yeah I'm curious as well. I was running a 50/50 93/E mix on a 6th port setup spraying before the throttle body with 2 2200cc injectors and a DW 340 ITP. I thought about spraying meth for cooling and had the HTP front bumper meth tank but I needed money so I sold it. This all has happened at literally the worst time. After buying the engagement ring it depleted my reserve money. I usually keep money set aside for emergencies but I guess that's how life works.

 

[Redline]

Yeah I asked Mark to push it pretty far and the tune was solid it was just me being an idiot with the WOT box stuff haha. Yeah I'm curious as well. I was running a 50/50 93/E mix on a 6th port setup spraying before the throttle body with 2 2200cc injectors and a DW 340 ITP. I thought about spraying meth for cooling and had the HTP front bumper meth tank but I needed money so I sold it. This all has happened at literally the worst time. After buying the engagement ring it depleted my reserve money. I usually keep money set aside for emergencies but I guess that's how life works.

Dang, I would've snatched up that HTP tank in a heartbeat! I'm on the edge of my seat for Matt and Katie to finally do another run. I'm on their "list" for it, but as most folks know, they have no short-term plans for it; no set date at all

Well, the teardown will be interesting. Running a ton of methanol would've kept the cylinders even cooler, but for all we know, your cylinders were already cool enough (e.g., intact ringlands). Excited to see how this thread progresses.

 

[CMajor]

Dang, I would've snatched up that HTP tank in a heartbeat! I'm on the edge of my seat for Matt and Katie to finally do another run. I'm on their "list" for it, but as most folks know, they have no short-term plans for it; no set date at all

Well, the teardown will be interesting. Running a ton of methanol would've kept the cylinders even cooler, but for all we know, your cylinders were already cool enough (e.g., intact ringlands). Excited to see how this thread progresses.

Damn I would I would sold it to you. I put it on one of the B/S/T Mazdaspeed pages on Facebook and it was gone in a couple of days so I didn't even get a chance to list it here.

I'm going to document everything and if I get the time I wanna make a "How to" thread on disassembling an engine, if anyone ever wants to try and tackle it themselves like me. This will be my first time so it should be a good learning experience.

 

[alexwlwsn]

I'd be interested if you could explain your reasoning when you choose the compression of your pistons. There's a lot of back and forth on when high comp is necessary and about what the trade offs are I feel.