davychronic's build

[davychronic]

You're more likely than not going to have a tough time getting things to be smooth spraying that low. If cleaning is your major concern, it'll do enough cleaning when you're WOT. Actually it'll clean better at WOT because charge velocities will be higher.

A good PCV system that doesn't pull tons of oil into the intake coupled with spraying at WOT will keep things perfectly clean.

Yea im not sure how things are going to work out, i built my base map for them to spray 1% idc until 1psi then it incrementally increases to 80% by 28psi. I wish the aem fic came with a higher pressure sensor. Im debating if i have the movivation to see if i can make a 4 bar work in its place. If not then ill be stuck with spraying the full 80% from 28psi. I do have 2 catch cans that do wonderful but a little port injection while cruising would be ideal.

 

[AYOUSTIN]

Seriously, a good PCV setup makes all the difference. Having fuel spraying over the valves is only needed pretty minimally to keep them clean. I'd be surprised if the injectors even did anything at 1% DC. Keep it simple, you'll thank yourself in the long run.

AEM does make a 5 bar pressure sensor, not sure where you're trying to plumb it in though, IIRC theirs uses 1/8NPT.

 

[davychronic]

Seriously, a good PCV setup makes all the difference. Having fuel spraying over the valves is only needed pretty minimally to keep them clean. I'd be surprised if the injectors even did anything at 1% DC. Keep it simple, you'll thank yourself in the long run.

AEM does make a 5 bar pressure sensor, not sure where you're trying to plumb it in though, IIRC theirs uses 1/8NPT.

The aem fic map sensor is integrated into the controller. Im sure it would take a lot of knowledge and skill to be able to get another map sensor to work with it. Maybe there is a way to run and tune it from the map on the engine, ill have to read up on that.

My pcv system should be about as good as it gets, damond catch can for the block with the pop off valve and another damond can on the head that is vented. Also have the damond pcv plate with a new oem pcv valve with one of the additional ports running up to the vented can. Only other thing i can think to get that i wont be doing is the gen 2 valve cover and the vented oil cap. Ive kind of been considering running a vacuum pump on the catch cans instead of intake manifold vacuum.

Hows the evo life treating you @AYOUSTIN? Miss your 6 yet?

 

[AYOUSTIN]

The aem fic map sensor is integrated into the controller. Im sure it would take a lot of knowledge and skill to be able to get another map sensor to work with it. Maybe there is a way to run and tune it from the map on the engine, ill have to read up on that.

My pcv system should be about as good as it gets, damond catch can for the block with the pop off valve and another damond can on the head that is vented. Also have the damond pcv plate with a new oem pcv valve with one of the additional ports running up to the vented can. Only other thing i can think to get that i wont be doing is the gen 2 valve cover and the vented oil cap. Ive kind of been considering running a vacuum pump on the catch cans instead of intake manifold vacuum.

Hows the evo life treating you @AYOUSTIN? Miss your 6 yet?

That PCV setup you've got now should be perfectly fine as is. If you don't want to pull a vacuum with the intake you could put a slashcut in the exhaust. I did one on my first 6, worked great.

The evo is awesome. It's been put away for the winter as of a month ago. I have a thread here for it, going thru thinning all the wiring on it now. And parts of me definitely miss the 6. The evo definitely isn't a sleeper and I loved pulling trains on muscle cars.

 

[davychronic]

That PCV setup you've got now should be perfectly fine as is. If you don't want to pull a vacuum with the intake you could put a slashcut in the exhaust. I did one on my first 6, worked great.

The evo is awesome. It's been put away for the winter as of a month ago. I have a thread here for it, going thru thinning all the wiring on it now. And parts of me definitely miss the 6. The evo definitely isn't a sleeper and I loved pulling trains on muscle cars.

Yea the 4g has become a great motor for reliable power and aftermarket support is amazing, not to mention they stay pretty consistantly valuable. They are terrible to ride in but awesome to drive.

 

[AYOUSTIN]

Lol fuck value, I wish they'd be cheaper. I was just thinking earlier today how I wish I had a second for a winter beater/rallycross car. Maybe one day I'll buy another 6.

 

[davychronic]

Lol fuck value, I wish they'd be cheaper. I was just thinking earlier today how I wish I had a second for a winter beater/rallycross car. Maybe one day I'll buy another 6.

Yea im looking for a southern velocity red ms6 myself to swap everything into.

 

[Ssinstaller]

Doesn't the FIC use the oem injector signal to trigger the aux injectors?

Sorry if I missed something earlier in this thread, but how are you connecting it to the DI injector signal?

IIRC FIC injector map operates using the OEM injector PW as the base, and adjusts it by whatever % you enter in the cell. Doesn't this method leave you with the same injection widow limitations as the oem injectors?

 

[davychronic]

Doesn't the FIC use the oem injector signal to trigger the aux injectors?

Sorry if I missed something earlier in this thread, but how are you connecting it to the DI injector signal?

IIRC FIC injector map operates using the OEM injector PW as the base, and adjusts it by whatever % you enter in the cell. Doesn't this method leave you with the same injection widow limitations as the oem injectors?

Connecting the signals at the resistor. On the aem fic you can set a delay/response time for injection. You enter in values based on factory pw so no spray is -100 and it goes up from there. I have done a little math to figure out the duty cycle of my injectors based from the factory injectors commonly accepted flow rate and built my map off that so i dont push the injectors passed 80% duty cycle.


edit: Though im sure a lot of tuning will be involved, the exact timing if the secondary injector pulse probably will not be so critical under higher rpm/boost

 

[Ssinstaller]

Connecting the signals at the resistor. On the aem fic you can set a delay/response time for injection. You enter in values based on factory pw so no spray is -100 and it goes up from there. I have done a little math to figure out the duty cycle of my injectors based from the factory injectors commonly accepted flow rate and built my map off that so i dont push the injectors passed 80% duty cycle.

The injectors are directy connected to the ECM, there is no resistor?

The issue is the OEM injector driver operates far differently than a standard port injection setup. Both injector wires connect to the ECM, and IIRC the firing signal is +100v to open and -100v to close across those wires. Not just 12v power with the ECM throwing a ground for the entire trigger duration like with port injection..

 

[AYOUSTIN]

IIRC the ECU sends a 12V signal to the injector driver which outputs 90-100V to the injectors. The MS3 ECU doesn't have a standalone injector driver and it directly outputs the 90-100V.

 

[davychronic]

The injectors are directy connected to the ECM, there is no resistor?

The issue is the OEM injector driver operates far differently than a standard port injection setup. Both injector wires connect to the ECM, and IIRC the firing signal is +100v to open and -100v to close across those wires. Not just 12v power with the ECM throwing a ground for the entire trigger duration like with port injection..

Sorry its the driver, im used to the resistor box in supras.

Wiring for the fic is ground triggered.

Hmm ill have to call aem to see what they think otherwise ill have to look into a split second controller. I doubt the fic has ability to control injectors from cam and crank signals. I was thinking the wires that feed the driver would be good to tap for trigger but now you have me second guessing it.

Good thing i can still return the fic, good catch @Ssinstaller

 

[davychronic]

Well I had a little time today to swap out the old damond adapter for the new port injection one

Pretty much the easiest part of this whole deal but at least its done and looks pretty good. Not sure if they used a different kind of aluminum or anodizing process but the fuel rail has kind of a purplish hue to it compared to the manifold adapter that im not very fond of. Also had a nice opportunity to check out the valves and the look pretty good but they only have maybe 4k miles on them.

Its supposed to get really cold towards the end of the week with highs in the teens and twenties and i have new bilsteins to put on my tundra and have to do exhaust mani gaskets on it too so im not sure when ill be able to start on the fuel pumps and new line. Hopefully the cold wont be here for good or it might be awhile, dont really want to run my propane heater with the open fuel tank.

 

[levon.mark]

sick build! We have lots of similarities

 

[davychronic]

Nothing too crazy going on lately, today it got above freezing so i spent a couple hours on the grocery getter and got my aeromotive fpr installed and made some hoses and am most of the way done routing my -8 feed line.

So its moving along, sucks that its pretty much a full tank of gas so im going to have to try and drain 5 gallons into a can so i can pull the hanger out and add my second pump. Then i just have to wire it all up to the split second pressure controller and then ill just be left with building a new hotpipe and i should be good to start tuning. Makes it sound like theres not a lot left.

 

[Trithemius]

I'm a weirdo and the first thing I noticed in this picture was your transmission. Did you somehow replace your worn out shift cable bushings? Did it help at all? I don't even use the original cables anymore, but I'm sure a lot of people would like to have tighter cable bushings, without having to replace the cables entirely.

 

[davychronic]

I'm a weirdo and the first thing I noticed in this picture was your transmission. Did you somehow replace your worn out shift cable bushings? Did it help at all? I don't even use the original cables anymore, but I'm sure a lot of people would like to have tighter cable bushings, without having to replace the cables entirely.

Acutally yea only the one that goes on the shift plate though. I just went to my local farm supply store and got a brass bushing that i cut down a little to fit inside and put a bolt through it. It tightened up how it goes into gear. Makes it a little more “notchy” you could say. I still have a brand new shift cable that if i ever pull the dash, ill install.

 

[davychronic]

Well finally the last piece i need for everything is here

Returned the aem fic and got the new split second controller with 2 4 bar map sensors built in. The tuning software isnt that difficult to figure out and the built in map sensors save me from having to tap factory one. It has the second pressure sensor to be able to compensate for altitude/atmospheric pressure, which is nice for only $500. From what i understand i only need an rpm signal and i will probably input the afr from my wideband too to help with tuning it. I set my max pulsewidth to 12ms to start out and i scaled it from 35 psi down to 3 psi. I bought a bosch 3.5 bar map, my 4 bar i couldnt get to operate in vacuum very good.

So hopefully after this little cold spell i can finish making the injector harness and wire this in, then work on the fuel pumps.

And my new wheels finally showed up. I was having trouble with the konigs only shipping me two and they didnt have two more and couldnt find any. So i got these 17x9 +25 wheels. Hopefully tomorrow i can mount the tires and see how it fits.

 

[davychronic]

So i have done my research and math and made my first map for the split second controller and got it uploaded and ready for the install.
Some if thins is kind of notes to myself so i know what i did.

I scaled the table that has a resolution of 26x33 from 3psi up to 35psi (my max planned boost for now) and 1500 rpm out to 7750rom. So doing a little math from the flow data i got with my injectors and using bernolis principle to calulate the flow. I intend to run 70psi max constant fuel pressure with a 1:1 compensating fpr. Injectors can handle 116psi rail pressure.

At 10psi i am commanding 2ms pw which comes out to 83cc/min per injector at 80psi rail pressure.

At 20psi i am commanding 4.8ms pw which comes out to 271cc/min per injector at 90psi rail pressure.

At 30psi i am commanding 7.6ms pw which comes out to 428cc/min per injector at 100psi rail pressure.

At 35psi i am commanding 9ms pw which comes out to 637cc/min per injector at 105psi rail pressure.

At 70psi both of my pumps are supplying 550 lph
At 100psi both of my pumps are supplying 440 lph

A common number i have found in my research is 2.64 hp per lph

So if thats true my fuel system should supply more fuel than this turbo should ever require even running on e30.

I will probably start tuning on 65psi rail pressure and of i need more fuel i can turn it up. 70 is about as high as im willing to go.

Sorry for all this rambling, hopefully someone smart can find an error in my thinking.

My previous setup got me barely to 30psi at 13.0 afr on 4x 320cc/min injectors injecting alcohol (either meth or e85) as a reference.

 

[Ssinstaller]

What injectors are you running? I dont see anything wrong with your plan, just wondering why you need fuel pressures that high. Injectors are so cheap getting a bigger set so you can keep the peak pressure lower just seems like a better idea. IMO at 35psi of boost you should only need 80-85psi of fuel pressure with properly sized injectors.