Help Me Decide on Stiffer Suspension, Plz?

[Redline]

Just read the entire thread, great information and I look forward to your updates. In the same boat right now looking for DD and track day suspension. I was originally looking to get Bilstien B16 or KWv3 but now I might build a kit like yours....decisions. Fortunately I work at a shop will full access to an alignment machine with corner balancing capabilities.

I haven't heard much about the B16, but knowing Bilstein's rep, that's probably a solid option. Lots of folks run (and love) the v3's, which also happen to be nearly identical to the Mazdaspeed Motorsports coilovers (which you can get for a steal - like $1k less if you're a member of MSM). The only think with them is v3's and MSM Coilovers are ~400/290; in other words, not very stiff. Lots of folks who competitively track their cars run higher rates than those.

 

[Trackrabbit]

I just found this http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f12/adjustable-bilstein-colivovers-158055/ with spring rates. I think I have a decison.

 

[Redline]

So I realized today that my tire pressure was 28/28. I normally run 35/34 or 34/33. Needless to say, turn in is much sharper and the ride feels stiffer. It's a tad jarring sometimes, and I'm thinking I'm starting to appreciate more what @VTMongoose said about needing more compression damping, but overall I'm very pleased with the change. I'm still at 1-1/4 from full stiff front and 3/4 from full soft rear. I may add an extra half turn to both. We'll see.

 

[Redline]

Having driven on the new setup for a few weeks, I can definitely say I'm loving it. My 7" rear spring choice means I'm at max low, so I don't have as much of a "drop" appearance , but I'm the type of guy that performance >>> looks in most cases. The extra articulation range is definitely a benefit.

Cool side effect: I can use my old normal (non-low-profile) jack again! LOL.

Anyways, the cool stuff - performance: Ride quality is pretty similar to my old Swifts/Koni Yellow Fronts/Bilstein B8 rears. Sudden drops can cause a little harshness in feeling, but that is similar to my old setup, if not a little more pronounced. I can see what @VTMongoose was talking about more regarding driving impressions. I think more compression stiffness would definitely help, but revalving won't occur until full-on track conversion/built motor/EFR 7163/likely stiffer springs for retirement to weekend warrior/track duty (instead of pure DD).

One thing I will say, my new, stiffer spring rates handle my 385/380 MUCH better. There's much less roll/steering input corrections needed when, for instance, dropping into 3rd on the highway. These spring rates are a great deal better at handling my power level.

I'll soon be going back for my touch-up alignment since everything has settled. I toyed with the idea of going to 6" rear springs, but it's not worthy it for an extra .25-.5" drop that may look aesthetically pleasing, but would be contrary to traction/performance.

More to come...

 

[mr_mazda329]

Good info here. I'm very hopeful that my new setup should perform well. Looking to topple the KW's with this set of Scale Coilovers that are fully customizable and adjustable for less. KW's lack of camber plates and shitty progressive rates turned me off. Going to start the install this weekend hopefully.

393lb F 450lb R.

 

[Redline]

Good info here. I'm very hopeful that my new setup should perform well. Looking to topple the KW's with this set of Scale Coilovers that are fully customizable and adjustable for less. KW's lack of camber plates and shitty progressive rates turned me off. Going to start the install this weekend hopefully.

393lb F 450lb R. View attachment 4172

Never heard of Scale or seen anyone ever run them. I hope they offer all that you expect and more. Are they U.S. made? It'd be cool if we could ride in each others' cars back to back since our spring rates are so similar. BTW, is the damping independently or simultaneously adjustable?

 

[mr_mazda329]

Never heard of Scale or seen anyone ever run them. I hope they offer all that you expect and more. Are they U.S. made? It'd be cool if we could ride in each others' cars back to back since our spring rates are so similar. BTW, is the damping independently or simultaneously adjustable?

They are out of Canada and offer full customization. I am pretty much going out on a limb with this company since they offered custom rates and shock valve matching. They were known as Standard suspension company and the name changed. Mostly used in the drifting world as far as I know. Dampening is adjusted bound/rebound at the same time like most coilovers.

 

[Trackrabbit]

fancy, im curious to hear how those work out. will you be tracking the car with this suspension? and so im clear, you asked for custom spring rates and they valved the struts/shocks to those springs?

 

[Redline]

They are out of Canada and offer full customization. I am pretty much going out on a limb with this company since they offered custom rates and shock valve matching. They were known as Standard suspension company and the name changed. Mostly used in the drifting world as far as I know. Dampening is adjusted bound/rebound at the same time like most coilovers.

Cool. Hope it gives you the balance of performance and comfort you're looking for. Most mid-range coilovers adjust compression/rebound at the same time, like Corksport, JBR, BC, etc. The really high-end ones like KW v3s, Mazdaspeed Motorsports (essentially rebadged v3s), and others in the $2,000+ range offer independent adjustment for fine-tuning on racing setups, for instance.

Personally, I'm going to get some seat time and have the Yellows revalved based upon the driving experience, professional (championship winning) driver input of the setup, and the spring rate I end up on. That'll be the base setting, then I can add in more rebound stiffness if I want, given the nature of the Yellows.

 

[phate]

Most mid-range coilovers adjust compression/rebound at the same time, like Corksport, JBR, BC, etc. The really high-end ones like KW v3s, Mazdaspeed Motorsports (essentially rebadged v3s), and others in the $2,000+ range offer independent adjustment for fine-tuning on racing setups, for instance.

The really good ones don't need any adjustments

 

[Redline]

The really good ones don't need any adjustments

Assuming you're always at the same track running the same setup in the same weather and vehicle weight (passenger, or no), right?

 

[phate]

I never run the same course, and I can't tell the difference if there's a passenger or not. I've also never really thought about what would make the damping better, because it just works. The car rapes.

Not only that, but a non adjustable setup that is really close allows you to focus on your bad driving, rather than blaming and turning knobs all the time.

 

[Redline]

I never run the same course, and I can't tell the difference if there's a passenger or not. I've also never really thought about what would make the damping better, because it just works. The car rapes.

Not only that, but a non adjustable setup that is really close allows you to focus on your bad driving, rather than blaming and turning knobs all the time.

So when you gonna come down and setup mine? (after I get the seat time, of course, LOL)

It would be cool. Still crossing my fingers for the national champions down here I have some close ties to; their world-class instruction/ride-along help would be inimitable.

 

[mr_mazda329]

fancy, im curious to hear how those work out. will you be tracking the car with this suspension? and so im clear, you asked for custom spring rates and they valved the struts/shocks to those springs?

I will be tracking the car here shortly. I have a baseline time to go off of with same conditions. I did get them to custom match/valve the rates I asked for.

 

[Redline]

I will be tracking the car here shortly. I have a baseline time to go off of with same conditions. I did get them to custom match/valve the rates I asked for.

Any updates?

 

[Redline]

Finally getting my touch-up alignment tomorrow. Looks like the car settled at ~15" on all four corners. Can't say that I hate having a little bit extra ground clearance again. The suspension is able to do it's job better (more room to work), and we don't have a ton of travel to begin with.

Car's pulling a tad to the left, so I'll make sure the tire pressure is even and that the touch-up alignment tomorrow addresses it. I'm also thinking about adding 1/4 stiffness front and 1/2 turn stiffness rear, but I'm going to get a ride-along with a track pro before doing so to get an informed opinion.

 

[Redline]

Alignment is done. Height is fine-tuned, though very little adjustment was required - the length of the Eibach ERS'es that came with the kit barely changed length at all. The shop did some adjustments to get more even tire wear in the rear (outer edge wasn't being utilized as much). I told them about the little bit of harshness and got them to ride-along for a pro opinion. They actually left the rear alone (3/4 from full soft) and softened up the front ~1/4 turn or so. Car feels great. Though I'm basically only 0.25" or so under stock ride height, the car is extremely responsive, especially at high speed. And I have a lot more suspension travel running my setup like this, which is always a good thing for tracking/traction.