Intercooler core discussion

Boost_creep

Boost_creep

Greenie N00B Member
I wanted to start a discussion to get people's opinions/observations on the different FMIC cores on the market. I am running a CP-E tmic at the moment, making roughly 420whp, on a gtx3071. But as we all know, we need moar power! I did have the Cobb v2 piping kit with a TR8 core, and absolutely hated it. You can see my discussion on that here:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f293/p0113-high-iat-s-173210/

To sum the thread up, I installed the kit and saw much higher BAT's and ECT's than I have ever experienced. It either was the ic core heatsoaking the radiator, or the other way around. My BAT's were so high that if I stayed at idle for more than 5 minutes, I would throw a "maf circuit high" trouble code. So no bueno. The kit came off, and everything went back to normal. That is why I still run a tmic to this day, and it makes me ask the question, why is no one else experiencing this?

So with that being said, the first (and most common options) are the Treadstone TR6, TR8 and TR8L cores. I really want to stay away from these cores, just because of my previous bad experience. Whether it was the piping design or the core, that caused my issue, I do not know. But this time around I plan to use JBR's undermount piping kit. I'm hoping this will quell some of the heatsoak I was experiencing. Feel free to chime in here if you are running one of the above cores, and either experience, or do not experience, high BAT's since the install.

There is one Treadstone core that has peaked my interest, and that's the TR11. Same width as the TR8, so it will work with JBR's piping, but it is a few inches taller. This will require cutting the crash bar. I'm not too keen on that at the moment. Is anyone else running this core? Here is a link to cld12pk's experience with this core on his Gen1:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f33/how-install-treadstone-tr11-intercooler-120888/

I've been searching around the interwebz for other cores of similar size and came across 2 others. The first is the Spearco 5-383 core. Capable of 550hp, and only 2 inches wider that the TR8, at the same height. I should be able to make it work. Does anyone have any opinions on this core? I know Spearco is a very reputable company and has been around for roughly 35 years. They must be doing something right.

https://turboneticsinc.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=12&product_id=105

And lastly, I came across a Garrett ATP-INT-003 core of similar size on ATP's website. I do not have any direct experience with these cores, but I thought I have heard @rfinkle2 mention them before as being a higher quality piece. If anyone has any input on this core, I would love to hear it, as well:

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-INT-003&Category_Code=INT

Whew, ok I think that's enough blabbing. Ready, set, go!
 
I run a TR8C w/JBR piping on my Genpu (over VC piping, not under-mount). I have no issues with BATs climbing too high when I'm at a red light, etc., and have never had coolant temp issues. I did have to trim my JBR FMIC hoses shorter on either side of the core because it has a 3" inlet/outlet, so I needed room for 2.5"-3" reducer couplers on either side of the TR8C.

Have you considered a TR1035? It is a little thicker, but that may put it closer to your radiator, which may have been part of the problem. Also, it has 3" inlet/outlet too, so you'd have to figure in the length of the reducer couplers, like I did.
 
I used to have a pre-CX Racing Chinajunk FMIC I got with my Protege Garage FMIC piping. +30 degree over ambient. Went to a TR8 and now am about -5 or so.
 
I'm not sure that the core was the cause of your high BAT / IAT / sensor issues and I don't think an underroute hotpipe is going to lower BATs any. Gen1s have weird under the hood airflow. Did you fab or purchase air dams as was suggested?

I switched from TMIC to FMIC w/ a TR8 and my idle / traffic BATs dropped. Highway / cruise BATs remained about the same/a touch lower. That's with the hotpipe sitting on my valvecover. There are a couple inches of gap between the the intercooler and the radiator.
 
I've actually been more keen on the 3" cores, because my thoughts were that the 3.5" thick TR8 that I had was butted up against my radiator. I'm not sure how true that is, but it's my assumption. I figured if I went with a 3" thick core it would leave a little room for airflow/temperature stabilization.

Here's my TR8 core mounted:

image.jpeg
[doublepost=1455913300][/doublepost]I did remove all the air ducting under the hood, and I also had my under engine shroud mounted. I never did install the CS diverted panels, as I aborted the operation, before spending more money.

It's very interesting that you guys aren't seeing higher air temps. When my radiator fans cycled on from the a/c, it was literally blowing hot air right onto my maf housing. I could sit at a light and watch my IAT's climb insanely fast, then a CEL.

Are you both using a diverter panel, and which one?
 
If it helps:
upload_2016-2-19_14-20-11.png
I should also mention that I've removed the upper-half shroud panel that was behind my grille. I didn't do this for any reason other than thinking it may help more air get where it needs (lower BATs), but it had no impact. Also, I have a UR crash bar and my core is custom mounted to it, so it's probably sitting higher than most other folks on stock crash bar (Genpu, anyways).
 

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I dont know if this helps or not, but.....

i stated off on a cx racing kit. it was fine on the k04 I guess. When i did my stock block 3071 build I upgraded the core to a tr8 and installed an ultimate racing crash bar. Now that I've gone full bore with a build and 5858 Im kind of running a Frankenstein setup. HTP under route piping, same tr8 core and crash bar, and still using the CX cold side. No issues and everything is fine. Car runs ~33psi and makes about 560WHP. I never see BATS get out of control........but I am running enough meth to choke a horse lol. AFAIK (may be wrong) Justin is still running a TR8 making north of 600hp.
 
I thought Justin was running the Cobb core?

I am spraying a ton of meth too. Lol. So I'm not too concerned with wot bat's, but really more concerned with idle, low speed bat's and the affect the core has on ect's.
 
neganox said:
Not saying this is the same issue. But check it out.

http://goo.gl/BupTbq

Might give you some ideas.
Click to expand...
I saw that on Facebook recently, and thanks for bringing that up. I think it's a very good point, and leads me to another question. When I installed the Cobb fmic, it had me remove the plastic air guides running vertical along each side of the radiator as it would have interfered with the pipe routing. I don't see that as being necessary with JBR or CX kit, and makes sense as to why others are not seeing this issue. For those of you following this thread, are your air guides still in place? Does the Gen2 even have these air guides?
 
Boost_creep said:
I saw that on Facebook recently, and thanks for bringing that up. I think it's a very good point, and leads me to another question. When I installed the Cobb fmic, it had me remove the plastic air guides running vertical along each side of the radiator as it would have interfered with the pipe routing. I don't see that as being necessary with JBR or CX kit, and makes sense as to why others are not seeing this issue. For those of you following this thread, are your air guides still in place? Does the Gen2 even have these air guides?
Click to expand...
I seem to remember removing some black plastic panels from each side (it's been a while) that were bolted in on either side of the radiator. I had zero coolant issues afterwards though, so I really don't know why they were there in the first place.
[doublepost=1455934985][/doublepost]Found this on JBR's install guide:
upload_2016-2-19_20-22-42.png
 
Maybe BATs were high because the Cobb hotpipe sits directly above the coldpipe/throttle body? It seems like you've ruled most everything else out, so that's the only thing I could see that could cause a problem. Most other kits run the hotpipe over to the passenger side of the car.

I run a TR8 with JBR pipes (over the valve cover) with lower BATs that the stock TMIC provided me (as was expected). All TMIC air flow removed, no FMIC air dams installed. No problems like you've described though.
 
A local had issues with ECTs on the track (not straight line); he picked up the JBR air dam and made his own side dams, which supplemented the JBR piece and enabled it to work quite a bit better. Having a FMIC will restrict flow to the radiator, and direct some air to the top where it will simply go over it via the gap between radiator housing and bumper/grille. If you want to see if a block off plate/shroud will help, get a piece of cardboard and spend a few minutes making it fit. It doesn't have to be pretty for testing.

It looks like you still have the stock exhaust mani, so I highly recommend that you remove the rear rubber seal which will allow a shitload of heat to exit the engine bay at idle, and stuff cool air in there when rolling. Long term, get either an upgraded exhaust mani (you want one anyways) or get your stocker ceramic coated, which will help a little with bay temps.

As for TMIC, I'm working on one that will be roughly equivalent to a TR8 (which almost all aftermarket TMICs are sized close to), but I'm also working to reduce soak and improve airflow to the TMIC. This is a long term project though, and probably won't be done or even have updates for quite a while.
 
Well, I am running the cpe mani now. Those pictures were taken 2 years ago when I tried going fmic. Do you think that will have an effect on temps if I try again?

image.jpeg

It's interesting what you say about the rear seal, I may try that.

Like I said previously, I have never had temp issues in the 6 years I've owned my car. For the month I was fmic, ect and bat were 20+ degrees higher than before. Took everything off, and temps went back to normal. I do have my eye on Raider's air damn, as I think that will really help next time around.
 
Is your engine bay cooler now that the stock mani is out? If yes, it will probably help a little. Other than that, you need ducting to bring efficiency back up to where it was with TMIC.
 
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