Maisonvi's never ending build

xfeejayx said:
Reading your post again, it's very possible the pump is the issue. The regulator is controlling to 60 at idle and cruise, no reason it should change at WOT. Makes me think the pump isn't keeping up.
Click to expand...

Email resonse I got from DW:

"Thanks for contacting DeatschWerks tech support. Also, thanks for the video. I want to clarify that you are using one 300c pump for both the GDI and port injectors? If that is the case then it is possible that you are running out of pump. The drop in pressure seems from the duty cycle being maxed on the pump. It could also be from the FPR. Another thing to note is if you have an adjustable FPR that the higher the pressure the lower the fuel flow. So if you can lower your fuel pressure you will actually increase the flow of the pump. Your fuel system may require 4 bar(58psi), but if not then running it at 3 bar(43.5psi) can help.

The link below if the pump tech for the 300c that will show you how the pump behaves at different pressures. At 60psi the pump is only able to make 298lph. http://www.deatschwerks.com/resources/fuel-pump-tech/dw300c-fuel-pump-tech

If you have any further questions please let me know.
Thanks,"
 
Maisonvi said:
Email resonse I got from DW:

"Thanks for contacting DeatschWerks tech support. Also, thanks for the video. I want to clarify that you are using one 300c pump for both the GDI and port injectors? If that is the case then it is possible that you are running out of pump. The drop in pressure seems from the duty cycle being maxed on the pump. It could also be from the FPR. Another thing to note is if you have an adjustable FPR that the higher the pressure the lower the fuel flow. So if you can lower your fuel pressure you will actually increase the flow of the pump. Your fuel system may require 4 bar(58psi), but if not then running it at 3 bar(43.5psi) can help.

The link below if the pump tech for the 300c that will show you how the pump behaves at different pressures. At 60psi the pump is only able to make 298lph. http://www.deatschwerks.com/resources/fuel-pump-tech/dw300c-fuel-pump-tech

If you have any further questions please let me know.
Thanks,"
Click to expand...

"Blah blah blah running out of pump blah blah." Rough math says you need 200 lph for what you're trying to do. You want close to 75 psi fuel pressure(~30 boost psi + ~45 delta p across injector to rail), and the chart says you will get about 265 lph there. Should be plenty of fuel if the pump is doing it's job.

From everything that I've seen, we do not have an adjustable/variable FPR.
[doublepost=1478269987][/doublepost]Nothing makes me happier than guesstimath checking out.
upload_2016-11-4_9-30-37.png
upload_2016-11-4_9-33-6.png
http://injectordynamics.com/injector-selector/
 

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xfeejayx said:
35psi boost out of 200 psi WMI is nbd. 35 PSI boost out of 50psi PI rail pressure is a no go. Big difference.
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Indeed. That's part of my point; guess I didn't make it overtly clear. WMI injectors will continue atomizing fine at a lot lower pressures than the WMI pumps put out. Some pumps are even run at 150psi or 100psi (and sometimes even below that on DIY setups) with no issues. But going from 60psi rail pressure to 25psi effective pressure for your PI (in your 35psi boost level example) is no bueno.
 
Last edited:
xfeejayx said:
"Blah blah blah running out of pump blah blah." Rough math says you need 200 lph for what you're trying to do. You want close to 75 psi fuel pressure(~30 boost psi + ~45 delta p across injector to rail), and the chart says you will get about 265 lph there. Should be plenty of fuel if the pump is doing it's job.

From everything that I've seen, we do not have an adjustable/variable FPR.
[doublepost=1478269987][/doublepost]Nothing makes me happier than guesstimath checking out.
http://injectordynamics.com/injector-selector/
Click to expand...

Well thats getting book marked. Trying to figure out if skipping the stock regulator, adding one to my system and a return would do what I need. It wouldnt be a boost referenced one though, just a universal AEM style. Need to really just wait to see if my pump is going bad. Anyone know if there is a way to test them?
 
If you swap out the stock regulator with a known good one and the pressure still drops, you either need larger fuel lines or a new pump; not really a whole lot else it could be.
 
You can ballpark that math real quick based on horsepower (with assumptions and rounding, of course). Say ~350g/kwh bsfc. Use fuel density of ~700 g/L. kw*bsfc/density=required flow lph

Which model AEM regulator are you looking at? The ones I've seen have a manifold reference.
Fuel lines have been proven to be sufficient, unless there is a ridiculous blockage somewhere.
Next logical cheap step is to swap that regulator.

FWIW, I think injector dynamics is the beez kneez.
 
xfeejayx said:
You can ballpark that math real quick based on horsepower (with assumptions and rounding, of course). Say ~350g/kwh bsfc. Use fuel density of ~700 g/L. kw*bsfc/density=required flow lph

Which model AEM regulator are you looking at? The ones I've seen have a manifold reference.
Fuel lines have been proven to be sufficient, unless there is a ridiculous blockage somewhere.
Next logical cheap step is to swap that regulator.

FWIW, I think injector dynamics is the beez kneez.
Click to expand...

Picked this one up for pretty much nothing, so its what I have at this point.
http://www.aemelectronics.com/produ.../universal-adjustable-fuel-pressure-regulator

I do have a spare fuel basket I could swap in and try to run everything again.
 
Slow6_pl said:
You're the type of person I like, because you remind me of me. Impulse FTW.
Click to expand...

Haha, it was a good deal, I can sell it for what I bought it for I think without too much issue if I change my mind. But it will eliminate the flow issues Im going to run into, let me really stretch out this turbo for what it has. Need to find that hotside cheap too though.
 
Maisonvi said:
Haha, it was a good deal, I can sell it for what I bought it for I think without too much issue if I change my mind. But it will eliminate the flow issues Im going to run into, let me really stretch out this turbo for what it has. Need to find that hotside cheap too though.
Click to expand...
Custom design/CNC machine one on a 5-axis out of a billet? :D
 
Ok, so I swapped my spare fuel pump basket in, the regulator seems to hold pressure a bit better, still dips though.

Im thinking a larger pump is going to be in order, and maybe crush the regulator. I would like to come up with a drop in solution for the walbro 450 if I can. Something that would let people do it real easy. Also debating if a return would increase the efficiency of the system, but then I need to put in a regulator and bypass my OEM one? not sure yet.

Ok, to the data:


 
Interesting, Your feeding this off the HPFP, i wonder if the demand its calling for is pulling from needs of the aux.
 
PURPFOX said:
Interesting, Your feeding this off the HPFP, i wonder if the demand its calling for is pulling from needs of the aux.
Click to expand...

No, this is T-ed into the system right before the HPFP. So this rail is only being fed by the ITFP. The stock injectors are still the only thing on the HPFP and I dont see any drop in my fuel pressure on the stock rail at WOT (not noticeable at least, always 1700+)
 
thats what im getting at. the volume required to keep the HPFP at its demand is taking from the aux injectors. i have to ask to get the full picture but where the injectors firing during that run. might be interesting to adjust so you can make a pull without them running and record the pressures to compare. rule out an imbalance in the system.
 
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