Maisonvi's never ending build

PURPFOX said:
thats what im getting at. the volume required to keep the HPFP at its demand is taking from the aux injectors. i have to ask to get the full picture but where the injectors firing during that run. might be interesting to adjust so you can make a pull without them running and record the pressures to compare. rule out an imbalance in the system.
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I think I get what you are saying. Record that gauge without using the PI injectors? See if the result is the same? I could do that, I have a map and everything, just need to unplug the injectors.
 
Exactly, this way you see how it behaves with out the injectors, and allows for a better idea of whats going on, or if the pressure dropping is normal without the injectors in use.

might just let us see the whole picture of the behavior. Im not an guru by any means just what would be in my line of troubleshooting
 
@Maisonvi
Follow the math/data.
-You already KNOW that pump design is keeping up on another engine with the same setup, making more power. (You're using an AN tee, not a 1/8npt fitting, correct?)
-The math says you should be flowing sufficient fuel if the pump is keeping up with DW's advertised flow.
-The regulator is maintaining more pressure at low flow requirements, and it is not an "adjusting" type regulator.

You really should talk to DW about that pump. If the fuel pressure maintains fine when not firing PI (and I'm almost positive it will), you have a pump flow issue. By design it should be fine, but it's not. That's either power (voltage) or warranty time.

Maybe measure voltage at the pump during operation. Not sure if you're able to log it.
 
xfeejayx said:
@Maisonvi
Follow the math/data.
-You already KNOW that pump design is keeping up on another engine with the same setup, making more power. (You're using an AN tee, not a 1/8npt fitting, correct?)
-The math says you should be flowing sufficient fuel if the pump is keeping up with DW's advertised flow.
-The regulator is maintaining more pressure at low flow requirements, and it is not an "adjusting" type regulator.

You really should talk to DW about that pump. If the fuel pressure maintains fine when not firing PI (and I'm almost positive it will), you have a pump flow issue. By design it should be fine, but it's not. That's either power (voltage) or warranty time.

Maybe measure voltage at the pump during operation. Not sure if you're able to log it.
Click to expand...

I am talking to DW. This test was part of the deal for them to look at the pump. Voltage might get checked too.
 
Maisonvi said:
I am talking to DW. This test was part of the deal for them to look at the pump. Voltage might get checked too.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you'll know either way soon. Good luck, Ken.
I will say I'm surprised the PI guys aren't typically running boost-referenced, rising-rate FP regulators. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I'm certainly no PI guru, LOL.
 
Redline said:
Sounds like you'll know either way soon. Good luck, Ken.
I will say I'm surprised the PI guys aren't typically running boost-referenced, rising-rate FP regulators. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I'm certainly no PI guru, LOL.
Click to expand...

The goal of this system was to get to 500+ hp as low cost as possible. I have a regulator, but right now Im not using it to try and sort out the system as an alternative to 5/6th port with more potential but without the $2000+ price tag of a full blown PI system. So Im doing it step by step to try and keep this in the "budget" and close to the "bolt on" category
 
Well if your fuel pressure is dropping and the reg isn't the issue (it's not) then the only remaining cause can be supply; either lines too small to feed enough quickly (unlikely) or the fuel pump ain't up to snuff.
 
Enki said:
Well if your fuel pressure is dropping and the reg isn't the issue (it's not) then the only remaining cause can be supply; either lines too small to feed enough quickly (unlikely) or the fuel pump ain't up to snuff.
Click to expand...

Any idea what size the stock line it?
 
Redline said:
I will say I'm surprised the PI guys aren't typically running boost-referenced, rising-rate FP regulators.
Click to expand...

Most PI setups do, Ken's is more of a 6th port turned into PI (since price was a large concern in his build)

Maisonvi said:
Any idea what size the stock line it?
Click to expand...

Tiny lol I have a 10AN line feeding my PI/HPFP. Come to think of it, that factory feed line might seriously be something to look at since you're having issues flowing fuel.
 
alexwlwsn said:
Most PI setups do, Ken's is more of a 6th port turned into PI (since price was a large concern in his build)



Tiny lol I have a 10AN line feeding my PI/HPFP. Come to think of it, that factory feed line might seriously be something to look at since you're having issues flowing fuel.
Click to expand...

Your set up is the big boy style though. I had a piece of cut off fuel line that hopefully I didnt toss. I can measure it and easily do the calculations on how much it can flow based on what PSI im seeing.
 
You're still flowing a very decent amount of fuel though, much more than was likely ever imagined by Mazda. And if you have 650cc(?) injectors you're even past the point of a 1000cc*2 6th port setup.
 
Didn't think to ask till now, and haven't looked at your logs or anything. What lambda/AFR are you running?
 
Redline said:
For me, I'm just going to methanol it. Future plans include an EFR7163, 4032 pistons built motor, a solid clutch, upgraded radiator, FoST mani, under-pipe routing, and since the FoST mani flows so evenly, 2 CM10 nozzles in a TB spacer (~25.6 GPH, which is ~1600cc extra cc of fuel, will get me ~47% more fueling headroom over our stock 3400cc). This should theoretically get me way beyond 500whp (which is where I'll stop for turbo longevity/traction).

A little ricer math says I'll be fine. I'm at 87 IDC at 385whp in the 70-degree ambients. That x 1.47 = ~565whp the setup should support (and still be at only ~87IDC in 70-degree ambients). I won't be pushing the 7163 hard at all to hit 500whp (great for longevity, as it it having water in the CHRA, as opposed to PTE turbos). That gives me the extra safety measure in the winter when IDCs go up a good deal more, too. Then I have the huge host of benefits that accompany a crapton of alky. I'll definitely need the HTP 3-gallon fenderwell tank and an AFR failsafe set to trigger my GA if flow stops/I go lean.
Click to expand...

Ok...

Maybe start a build thread and let Ken sort out his issues in his build thread?

Side note. Math is great and all, but real world isn't paper. For example, you say 2 CM10 nozzles should get you enough fuel for 500whp. I ran 2 CM14 nozzles in that exact setup to barely break 500whp.

Math says both Ken and I are on or near the edge of the DW300c's ability, however my pump seems to have less issue with being close to that edge. I still am betting that pump is not flowing as it should, or some DW300c pumps flow more than they should on paper. Either or, it's all happening in the real world, not on paper. So theorizing with math only gets you so far, and Ken is past that point IMHO.
 
Already done. Relevant post was relevant because it relates to extra fueling, but moved regardless ;)
 
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