MS3 Gen 2 with Gen1 engine? Help before purchase

PeteS

PeteS

Greenie N00B Member
I'm looking to purchase a 2013 MS3. The car is some hours away so I asked for a few videos of the car before making the trip. What caught my eye was that it doesn't have the typical Red Mazdaspeed oil filler cap and doesn't look like a Gen2 valve cover as it isn't a raised neck. Other than pulling the intercooler, coil and spark plug to see the tops of the cylinders with a camera is there any other way to tell a Gen 1 engine in comparison to a Gen2?

I think I read somewhere here that the Gen 1 has a oil filter cartridge and the Gen 2 has the spin on oil filter, but have also read most of the housings on the gen1s have been swapped out to accept the spin on filter. Is this accurate?

My only other guess is looking for the motor ID stamp but not sure what to look for as far on how to ID which gen it is. I read something about BL and BK motors. Which one is Gen 1? BL or BK and would those letters be stamped on the motor ID? Just want to make sure I know what I am getting into.

Thanks in advance for any insight.
 
You can't rely on the oil filter cap, I bought gen 2 new and it didn't come with one, then again I don't remember seeing it as an option so part of me thinks someone at the dealership snatched it...

Gen 2 engine had the revised valve cover, valve cover vent to Intake is slightly further forward for better crank case ventilation, 2011+ had revised VVT, turbo may have updated seals. Could be some other differences im missing

Yes gen 1 came with oil filter cartridge but you can get the spin on housing from the gen 2 and swap it on, some owners have chosen to do this.

Totally possible that the originally engine popped and a gen 1 was sourced to put into it, would really want to know the milage on the engine and compression test regardless if it's been swapped.

Post the add here
 
I wouldn't count on the oil filler cap as an indicator there were people who had the Mazdaspeed ones never get installed at the dealer. The oil filter could have been converted so also isn't a good tell.

More important is if the motor was replaced why and what else has been fooled witj
 
Awafrican said:
You can't rely on the oil filter cap, I bought gen 2 new and it didn't come with one, then again I don't remember seeing it as an option so part of me thinks someone at the dealership snatched it...Post the add here
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Thanks guys for the reply. I am not going on just the oil filler cap but more the valve cover as from what I have read the Gen2 valve cover where the filler car goes is raised about an inch and a half whereas the Gen1 it sits almost flush with the valve cover. I am going to attach two photos of the engine bay and a link to a video. If you fast forward to about 52 seconds its where he begins filming the engine bay. This car isn't a private seller so the dealer probably has as much info on the engine as I do, probably less since I'm doing my due diligence prior to purchase.

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Thanks again for the replies.

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Another thing I noticed from viewing pictures and unfortunately I'm not sure what that pulley drives but if you were to be looking straight at all the pulleys on the drive belt of a Gen 1 motor the top right pulley looks way larger than the Gen2 pulley located in the same spot. If you were to be standing in front of the car it would be the pulley closest to you and and also the one at the highest point of the engine. The Gen 2 pulley looks considerably smaller. Possibly the power steering pump?
 

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That is the gen 2 pulley on the top as gen 2 is electric steering so it's just an idler pulley, also has the 2 gen power steering reservoir. However that makes sense that if you swapped a gen 1 engine in you'd keep all the gen 2 accessories.

I do agree the neck on the pull fill cap seems more like the gen1 style than gen2, heat shield on the fire wall looks a little beat up it's definitely been off.

Again post the entire add of the car listing
 
Honestly that price is my opinion very high. The engine would have to be perfect. No pictures in link except body and interior. You haven't said if your mechanical skills are going to assess the engine health. Will you be getting a paid mechanic service to validate engine? Receipts for any engine parts, services, labor?
I will say again...that engine will have to be perfect for the (if believable, verified) miles. My gen1 owned since new, under 80k, every service by myself while older is worth about half the listed value.
 
Cfoldone said:
Honestly that price is my opinion very high. The engine would have to be perfect. No pictures in link except body and interior. You haven't said if your mechanical skills are going to assess the engine health. Will you be getting a paid mechanic service to validate engine? Receipts for any engine parts, services, labor?...
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Easter Bunny said:
Price is way too high
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This place is about 3-4 hours from me so I won't be taking a mechanic. I'm pretty mechanical and am comfortable sizing up the engine. I feel like I could do almost any repair but I don't have the lift or the space to perform major repairs but most anything that wouldn't involve a lift or a major teardown I can pretty much handle. If you look at the Carfax you can see this is an auction car so any paper trail or tracking down the previous owner to find out exactly what happened to the car is going to be impossible and most dealers aren't that versed in Mazdaspeeds. I'm guessing if I eventually go out there and turn to the salesman and say that I think this car has an older generation engine because the oil filler cap and neck are different from newer gens he will look at me completely cross eyed and probably reply something like "as far as we know its the original engine"

As far as prices that is the market right now guys. I think within 300 miles that is the least expensive 2013 I have spotted and there are some older models listed for even more money. Locally I just saw a 2011 w/ 110k miles no tech package, crap wheels and tires and needing a lot of care inside and out go for 12k. The market is crazy and from what I see won't start getting better until late 2022.
 
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Sadly that's the market right now speeds are worth more these days than we're used to seeing.

Man that add is useless
 
I'm selling my 07 Speed 3 if you're interested in a Gen 1. I'm located much further south in South Carolina though. The car isn't perfect cosmetically (needs paint on roof and spoiler but has ZERO rust). It runs flawless and makes great power. I'd even deliver it to you for gas costs if you were serious about it
 
L337TurboZ said:
I'm selling my 07 Speed 3 if you're interested in a Gen 1. I'm located much further south in South Carolina though. The car isn't perfect cosmetically (needs paint on roof and spoiler but has ZERO rust). It runs flawless and makes great power. I'd even deliver it to you for gas costs if you were serious about it
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Looking for a Gen2 but thanks for the offer.
 
Awafrican said:
...Man that add is useless
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LOL That's why I didn't even bother posting it. The videos the guy sent me were more useful to get a look at the car, Regardless I am not even going to bother taking the 3 hour drive since who knows how old the engine is and I am in no hurry. And yes if you want a MS3 or basically any car right now new or used you will be paying higher than usual prices. The search continues to find a unmolested MS3 which isn't the easiest thing to find these days.
 
Fair enough. Best of luck on your hunt.

I've actually been considering selling my 2013 given the current market, I'm the sole only it only has 125k km on the clock, I've got everything I've ever done logged along with random compression test, and UOA. I've seen similar speeds around me going for 20-23k CAD however buying something else is just silly as well around here. So I guess she stays for now, last year I did <6000km with working from home and living close to work so if I can keep miles down value should stay high, we'll see how it goes.
 
Located the MS3. 2011 w/ 66k miles on the clock and the tech package, completely stock mechanically. Needs some cosmetic help on front and rear bumpers but I'd rather that then buying something modded and having no idea if it was done correctly. Picking it up Wednesday. Not I have to start searching further to see best recommended motor oil, gear oil, PS oil and brake fluid as that will al be changed first and foremost.
 
Congratulations on the purchase. There's plenty of info around here for all of that. Search function can be a little wonky I use Google "engine oil site:mazdaspeed.org" replace engine oil with whatever search term you want and it'll only search these forums when you punch that in.

However to start:

https://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/best-engine-oil-all-mod-levels.7931/

Brake fluid: I'm a fan of ate typ 200, probably a thread around here too

https://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/transmission-fluid.10324/
Some offtopic discussion on power steering fluid in here too

I'd also say fresh spark plugs, definitely stick with stock heat range

https://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/spark-plug-data-base.1436/

Don't neglect engine / cabin filters as we all know the latter is often far too neglected, serpentine belt too.

Coolant there's some couple discussion threads about it iirc just don't have one at my finger tips.

As for oil filters napa gold / Wix / OEM have been the constant top 3 that I've seen over the years on this platform.
 
Man thanks for the links I was searching here but not the best search function. I know motor oil is like a religion everyone has their favorite and all swear by it. From my readings I will stick to a 5w30 weight that meets the Mazda specifications and pick a brand from there, I too have my favorites. I have always used the ATE Typ200, it just sucks the blue is no longer available used to make it so much easier when changing over.

Oil filters I just go with OEM, they are usually in the same price range and my local Mazda dealer isn't too far.

I have on order a Bosch cabin filter as you are correct it seems no one ever changes those and a set of NGK SILTR6A7G plugs. Seems like the consensus favorite for the stock heat range and gapped to .29 as per some reading around.

I'll have a look at the serpentine belt, air filter and all the other stuff. Plan of attack is get all mechanical maintenance completed. After that I want to take care of the bumpers as they are letting down the car. Once all that is done next steps will be an intake (not sure which quite yet), Borla axle back exhaust and coilovers. I won't be tracking the car so I won't need the best of the best coilovers but I don't want shit eBay crap either.

I think this gives me a solid foundation. After that I can get into more aggressive exterior mods and engine mods.

@Awafrican I can't seem to find a for sale forum on here? Am I just shit for brains or is it only available to users with x number of posts?

Thanks again for the links gonna read up now.


Well after some reading here and a few other spots I'll probably go this route for now as it is a fully stock engine at the moment.

Motor Oil: 5w30 Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
Trans/Gear Oil: 75w90 Ford XT-M5-QS or TriboDyn 75w90LS (recommended 75w80 but seems owners are using the 75w90 with no issues)
PS Oil: Valvoline Mercon V ATF
Brake: ATE Typ200 DOT4
Spark Plugs: NGK SILTR6A7G
 
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There is a forsale section it's actually donation accessed, ones you become a metal member (10$+ a year) you get access to it PMs are post gated for spam control. Metal members also get access to monthly raffles usually 50$ vendor of your choice gift cards we've even had CS steering wheels on the raffle and some other fun donations.

Not familiar with those spark plugs personally,

NGK LTR6IX-11 (6509) or NGK ILTR6A-8G (3787) is that's I see, also gap them 0.026-0.028"

I'd so highly recommend stainless steel brake lines while your in there doing brake fluid the pedal feel is amazing! Stiffens it right up.

Also a rear motor mount even while stock will do wonders for driveability, damond motorsports is the gold standard for any motor mount. Actually Raider is selling the pass and Trans mounts form them right now.

Solid shifter bushings do wonders for taking away slop in the shifting too
 
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Awafrican said:
...NGK LTR6IX-11 (6509) or NGK ILTR6A-8G (3787) is that's I see, also gap them 0.026-0.028"...
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As per NGK site they list the 96369 SILTR6A7G Laser Iridium Plugs gapped to .027 for that car but will look into your suggestions.

Awafrican said:
...I'd so highly recommend stainless steel brake lines while your in there doing brake fluid the pedal feel is amazing! Stiffens it right up.
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Recommended brand? I usually get my SS brake lines from Paragon Performance but Mazda is not listed in their manufacturers that they make lines for.

Awafrican said:
...a rear motor mount even while stock will do wonders for driveability, damond motorsports is the gold standard for any motor mount. Actually Raider is selling the pass and Trans mounts form them right now.
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I'm guessing this would be found in the FS section for donors to the site.

Awafrican said:
...Solid shifter bushings do wonders for taking away slop in the shifting too
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Yes on the list of things to do along with short shift kit. I want to make sure everything is mechanically sound before heading into those types of mods.
 
Plugs: could be a updated part number hey if NGK is recommending them in stock heat range and appropriate gap then they should be good.

Brake lines: stop tech, iirc rock auto sells them for a decent price.

Motor mounts for sale: yup in forsale section

Short shifter: adjusting the cables / taking off the heavy stock shift weight can do wonder for shifter feel JBR had a video on YouTube of how to do our cars if you're not familiar with it. Short shift plates don't always fair to well the best one is the adapted performance hammer style SSP if you go that route other wise a short shifter assembly in the cabin is certainly the best option rather than a shifter plate. CS / JBR have good shifter assembly's I think corksport , probably had the most adjustability.
 
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