MS3 Sparks One Time, Won't Start.

S

Sig32

Greenie N00B Member
I really need some help with this one. This is my first Mazdaspeed and here's the background on my situation:
2010 Mazdaspeed3 purchased with a blown engine. I rebuilt the engine using the following parts:
Salvaged block
New pistons and rings
New VVT solenoid, VVT sprocket and timing chain and parts
Used original head, camshafts, piston rods and crankshaft

The engine cranks, however I only get one spark in the following order 4-2-1 (no spark on 3). The car will continue to crank but will not fire after the initial spark sequence. Only two DTC's show when scanned P0403 (EGR was deleted) P0530 (Haven't charged A/C yet)

Here is what I have done in my attempts to fix this problem:
New camshaft sensor
New crankshaft sensor
Verified timing is correct (With timing tools)
Cleaned and verified all grounds
Verified signal wires to sensors
Confirmed continuity on sensors, coil packs, and ground wires
Confirmed all coil packs fire (non fire when connected to cylinder 3)
Installed salvaged PCM (Had same symptoms as original)
Reflashed original PCM

I've been working on this for two months and still can not find the problem. I've done countless internet searches and have found threads with similar issues but I haven't had any luck fixing my problem. I'm out of ideas on what I can look at or try to get it running. Can you please share your expertise and help me get my car running?
 
Awafrican said:
Sounds like you've going a harness issue on #3. Have you Checked for cuts / connuity.
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Thanks for the reply. I've checked continuity from the crankshaft, camshaft sensors and each coil pack to the PCM. Everything checks good.
 
Could be a grounding issue. Have you verified all grounds even the main battery ground?
 
L337TurboZ said:
Could be a grounding issue. Have you verified all grounds even the main battery ground?
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Thanks for your reply. These are the grounding points that I cleaned and verified are grounded. If I am missing any please let me know.

Driver side shock tower
Ground point on top of transmission
Both ground points on side of transmission (bracket by clutch slave cylinder)
Ground by HPFP (cut and soldered new ground wire)
Ground point under coolant reservoir
Ground point under passenger side engine mount
 
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Did you check the ground on the HPFP plate? Near the two large connectors right in front of the HPFP.
 
L337TurboZ said:
Did you check the ground on the HPFP plate? Near the two large connectors right in front of the HPFP.
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I did and forgot to note that one, thanks. I actually opened the harness and replaced the ground wire completely. Originally thought that might have been the issue with the coil packs.
 
When you defined one spark 4-2-1 no 3. So sparks on 4-2-1 are constantly happening with engine cranking? Or only one time?
with switched ecm, and reflashed. Was replacement ecm known good?
Both original and replacement ecm have the exact symptoms?
Sorry if I am asking simple questions...but since electrical we all need to be on same page as your side of troubleshooting process.
Symptoms ... description of everything will help me and others think of more steps to try or what you have done so far.
 
Cfoldone said:
When you defined one spark 4-2-1 no 3. So sparks on 4-2-1 are constantly happening with engine cranking? Or only one time?
with switched ecm, and reflashed. Was replacement ecm known good?
Both original and replacement ecm have the exact symptoms?
Sorry if I am asking simple questions...but since electrical we all need to be on same page as your side of troubleshooting process.
Symptoms ... description of everything will help me and others think of more steps to try or what you have done so far.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize, I am just thankful to get some help with this mess. Below are the answers to your questions:

Sparks on 4-2-1 only one time right when the engine begins to crank and then no more sparks regardless of how long it cranks.
PCM was salvaged from wrecked car. I was told it was good, but I had/have no way of confirming that 100%
The salvaged PCM made no change in the symptoms. Only one spark on 4-2-1 and then nothing.

I know the firing order is 1-3-4-2, 1-3-4-2 etc. so I don't know if "technically" its firing in the right order, just in the middle of the sequence (end of first sequence beginning of second?).
 
Raider said:
https://www.mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/need-help-please-random-no-start.12213/

I am pretty sure the pcm needs to be paired though.
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You are correct. I paid for a 72 hour license to use Mazda Module Programmer. During which I reflashed both the salvaged and original PCM's. I had to change the VIN on the new PCM, program the keys to it and then reset the modules to communicate with each other. In the end it made no difference though, still wouldn't start and would only spark one time.
 
So thinking.. this in your hands has never run?
If not, others with gen 2 chime in...Antitheft measures? I have gen ones and I haven't found anything besides key fault causing crank, no crank. So wondering if you shot engine fluid into all but 3 if any fire happens. Somehow if that gets turn over fuel + spark (correct timing) and compression gotta at least ignite some fuel... wondering if cam position sensor some how interrupt the ignition? So if fires up after fuel with hopefully tell if timing is good.
 
Cfoldone said:
So thinking.. this in your hands has never run?
If not, others with gen 2 chime in...Antitheft measures? I have gen ones and I haven't found anything besides key fault causing crank, no crank. So wondering if you shot engine fluid into all but 3 if any fire happens. Somehow if that gets turn over fuel + spark (correct timing) and compression gotta at least ignite some fuel... wondering if cam position sensor some how interrupt the ignition? So if fires up after fuel with hopefully tell if timing is good.
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Correct, it was purchased with a dead engine, never saw it run. From what I have read, antitheft/immobilizer issues do not allow the starter to engage. I do get ignition in the three firing cylinders (sounds like its going to start) but then there is no continuation of spark and all I get is the starter turning the engine over. I thought about the camshaft sensor maybe being the culprit, but even after I installed a new one the symptoms remained the same. I read in other threads that the engine should start/run (just not good) with a faulty camshaft sensor. I don't know how true that is as this is my first Mazdaspeed. Can anyone confirm this?
 
Do you have an old cam sensor to swap out as a test?

Have you also tried sliding the crank sensor up/down on it's adjustment to see if that makes a change?
 
L337TurboZ said:
Do you have an old cam sensor to swap out as a test?

Have you also tried sliding the crank sensor up/down on it's adjustment to see if that makes a change?
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I do have the original camshaft sensor. I found a video online showing how to test it using a voltmeter and a metal object. The original sensor went from 4.98v down to .3v when tested. Due to my inexperience I thought that perhaps it was faulty since it didn't go to 0.0v. Prior to installing the replacement sensor I tested it and it yielded the same numerical results. I do believe that both sensors are good based on the test.
As for the crank sensor, I have not tried adjusting it. I have it lined up perfectly with the 20th tooth. How much adjustment do you recommend? Are we talking full teeth or less than a tooth in either direction? I don't know how sensitive it is.
 
The cam sensor you can't really look at voltage unless you put it on an oscilloscope. If you have a scan tool with graphing function you can watch the wave pattern to see what it's doing. Same goes for the crank sensor.

If you're seeing 5v at the sensors then it's reference voltage is good. You would have a DTC set for either crank and or cam sensor if they were bad or had an electrical issue.
 
L337TurboZ said:
The cam sensor you can't really look at voltage unless you put it on an oscilloscope. If you have a scan tool with graphing function you can watch the wave pattern to see what it's doing. Same goes for the crank sensor.

If you're seeing 5v at the sensors then it's reference voltage is good. You would have a DTC set for either crank and or cam sensor if they were bad or had an electrical issue.
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Thank you for your reply, that is interesting. I will have to look into the oscilloscope as I do not own one. I do have Forscan, but I don't know it well enough to say whether it has a graphing function.
 
Sig32 said:
Thank you for your reply, that is interesting. I will have to look into the oscilloscope as I do not own one. I do have Forscan, but I don't know it well enough to say whether it has a graphing function.
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An oscilloscope is really expensive. If you have Forscan see if you can go to the data view for your sensors then see if it has a graph function.

Like I said before I doubt this is an issue if you aren't seeing a DTC for a crank/cam sensor. Those are type A DTC'S which set immediately upon an error occuring. If you have no code for that then I would look elsewhere
 
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