My 2008.5 BM MS3 Build
- Thread starter Patrick Martz
- Start date
Patrick Martz
Greenie N00B Member
the orange in the center of the disks? if so yes
[doublepost=1462300557][/doublepost]I think I know what you're referring to now PurpFox, and no those heat rings were not always there. Mark said that it looks like the worst disk looks like it was seizing itself to the pressure plate. I'm in the process of just buying a replacement clutch. I can't really afford another twin disk so I might just be throwing an ACT 6 puck in it and seeing how far I can push it with that.
[doublepost=1462300557][/doublepost]I think I know what you're referring to now PurpFox, and no those heat rings were not always there. Mark said that it looks like the worst disk looks like it was seizing itself to the pressure plate. I'm in the process of just buying a replacement clutch. I can't really afford another twin disk so I might just be throwing an ACT 6 puck in it and seeing how far I can push it with that.
Patrick Martz
Greenie N00B Member
So I said fuck it and I'm not dealing with this twin disk anymore. I'm 95% sure the clutch is what the problem was. SO yesterday I ordered an ACT prolite flywheel and called KY clutch and asked what they had for me in single disk. They said they will send me their strongest singe disk they have. So I got the whole flywheel, TOB, disk, and PP for 711. Going to throw the CM 725 up for sale for really cheap for someone to have rebuilt. KY said this disk should be able to handle what I'm doing. But I know it will most likely need rebuilt yearly, which I'm fine with. Should have everything to put the clutch back together tomorrow.
But in other news, anyone that knows me knows I have a weird thing for AN fittings and lines. If I can figure out a way to use them I will. Well I made myself a new 6th port fuel line with Jiffy valved quick connect, Low pressure line off the fire wall, and then yellow clip line off the relief valve. They look sexy if I do say so myself. Here is some fiel line porn for ya:
But in other news, anyone that knows me knows I have a weird thing for AN fittings and lines. If I can figure out a way to use them I will. Well I made myself a new 6th port fuel line with Jiffy valved quick connect, Low pressure line off the fire wall, and then yellow clip line off the relief valve. They look sexy if I do say so myself. Here is some fiel line porn for ya:
Is the clutch you're mentioning the one I saw over on the other forum for ridiculously cheap? IIRC, it's designed for ACT flywheels and the practical experience on numerous cars that the guy has tested it on all looks promising. Same clutch? I wonder how much wtq it'll hold. My only concern would be clutch pedal cracking. You gonna change the clutch slave cylinder again?
Patrick Martz
Greenie N00B Member
Well my slave died when the twin disk failed. So I have to replace it. But kinda on the clutch question. He doesn't use the best material KY clutch offers. They said his can hold about 500 ft/lbs and mine should be able to hold much more than that. But being a single disk setup it's not going to last long. I'll have more information about it once I get it as the guy from KY said he is sending all the information about the disk in the box. And I'm not worried about the clutch pedal cracking. I've never really heard the ms3 having issues with that.
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So it is the same guy who has the thread on the other forum? (Sorry, I'm dense sometimes...)
I'm thinking about this from a future-proofing perspective. My 380wtq level (in good weather) has me right at the top of what the stock clutch can manage. And I notice sometimes after some aggressive pulls/shifting that my pedal has a weightier feel to it. I'm not sure the technical reason why this would be the case; maybe it's just a function of heat getting into it. The weightiness eventually goes away, and I've never burnt the clutch. Apparently the smell is terrible when it happens, so I feel pretty confident in saying I haven't...
Regardless, when I do replace the clutch, my goal is something that can easily manage 450-475wtq all day long and be reliable for hopefully as long as the stock clutch is on a stock Speed. My long-term goal is to build and go GTX3076r, PTE5858, or EFR7163 and be tuned for 450-500whp.
Say it ain't so! I have some spare unicorn dust, hopes, and dreams. And I can lay hands on the clutch and pray over it too
I guess my goal is to get a clutch that's way more than sufficient for the job, not drive it with mechanical apathy, and thus prolong its longevity. I heard good things about Southbend. I'm not too sure about Clutchmasters. But if I don't road-race it all the time, I'm hoping for solid longevity. And I'm all about rev-matching, not clutch dumping, very little FFS, etc., so it's not like I rag it out to the extent I could.
Sho
Silver Member
My 6 puck lasted 11 months and 50k miles at 350tq. When it failed, I put a stock clutch back in that had 156k on it (was the weekend before ENM last year and I wasnt gonna miss it) and have put another 55k on it since then. I'm right around 450whp/400tq. Not expecting it to last much longer. But hey, I can't complain
Say it ain't so! I have some spare unicorn dust, hopes, and dreams. And I can lay hands on the clutch and pray over it too
See this is what I'm after, just with 25-30% more holding capacity. You'd figure with the high-tech we have in 2016 that it'd be possible, right?? I mean, I'm not asking it to hold 700wtq or anything, LOL. I tend to shy away from act b/c FWIH they have short service lives. Kinda defeats the purpose for a higher-performance DD-able replacement, you know?
Was the stocker slipping at 450/400? Supposedly they're rated to 365. Mine seems fine at 380 though...
Patrick Martz
Greenie N00B Member
You should look more into the act 6 puck and the clutch kit from RD motorsports. The one from RD is where I got the idea but the guy from KY clutch said it will hold a lot more. It's the strongest clutch material they make. I just wanted a single disk as I wasnt too much of a fan of the feel on a twin disk or the price tag lol. With the flywheel, disk, pressure plate, and throw out bearing I got everything for $711. And it should be able to hold more than the southbend kits. At well over half the cost.
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That's a steal of a deal. I think that's the guy I was referring to from the other forum. The only concern I have is longevity.
Do you happen to know if it comes with extras, like the slave cylinder, pilot, and throwout bearings?
Patrick Martz
Greenie N00B Member
Come with throwing bearing but the other stuff is up to you.
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Sho
Silver Member
The stocker on my car is still holding fine at ~450/400. I don't hit peak tq til 4500rpm though, and I don't ffs. Nishan is making close to 500whp on a completely untouched stock block and stock clutch. I know he keeps the tq right at or under 400 for sake of the stock motor on his car.
Either way, my car scoots, and the clutch on my car has over 205k on it at this point. Mark has me on a pretty conservative boost curve for a PTE 5862, which helps big time.
So the deal with my car is, my original stock clutch lasted 95k miles. It started slipping when I let someone who I shouldn't have trusted tune my car. He had me hitting 390ft/lb on the stock turbo at 3500rpm. I put the 6 puck in at 95k and switched to Finkle for tuning and we were around 320/360 on stock turbo. At 124k miles, I put a PTE 5858 in and realgib3 (Mark) began tuning me, and we finished on stock fueling 22psi at 380/350. The 6 puck died at 145k miles on the chassis or 50k miles of use. At that point, it was a week before ENM 2015, and I didn't have the money for another clutch, so my buddy Evan gave me his 156k mile stock clutch & pressure plate from his ms6, and I used Mark's stock flywheel just to get me to the Dragon. In December 2015, I went from a PTE 5858 to a PTE 5862 and installed a meth kit, and have been running that til now on that same old ass stock clutch without issue at 28psi. Vdyno shows between 450/400 and 475/410 depending on what computer I use, so I take it with a grain of salt. But all I know, is I put a used 156k mile stock disc and pressure plate in my car when my car had 145k on the chassis. And now my car has 196k on the chassis on that same clutch at a much higher power level.
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Email from RD:
"The clutch comes with our segmented disc, pressure plate, tob and alignment tool. We recommend that you mate it with an ACT Streetlite flywheel. You can either get a hold of Nate at New Age Auto or call Marlin at Edge. The clutch, and I am quoting my manufacturer, should last forever. This is our new, harder compound so it now has a 500 mile stop and go break in period. After that, you are good to go. It will hold up to 650wtq. The clutch is heavier, but not ridiculously heavy. I have a knee injury and I can drive without an issue. It is daily derivable. We have a lot of people that are on our clutch that DD their car. There is some chatter but nothing insane. We've had 1 guy use our clutch for the last few years, with I think over 20k (don't quote me) on the clutch without issue. Let me know if you have any other questions!"
So it sounds like they're saying this thing is bulletproof (I emboldened), cheap, holds a crapton of wtq, and is DD-worthy. Hmmmm..... I asked follow-up questions about friction material, DD-ability/engagement/etc. We'll see what they say.
"The clutch comes with our segmented disc, pressure plate, tob and alignment tool. We recommend that you mate it with an ACT Streetlite flywheel. You can either get a hold of Nate at New Age Auto or call Marlin at Edge. The clutch, and I am quoting my manufacturer, should last forever. This is our new, harder compound so it now has a 500 mile stop and go break in period. After that, you are good to go. It will hold up to 650wtq. The clutch is heavier, but not ridiculously heavy. I have a knee injury and I can drive without an issue. It is daily derivable. We have a lot of people that are on our clutch that DD their car. There is some chatter but nothing insane. We've had 1 guy use our clutch for the last few years, with I think over 20k (don't quote me) on the clutch without issue. Let me know if you have any other questions!"
So it sounds like they're saying this thing is bulletproof (I emboldened), cheap, holds a crapton of wtq, and is DD-worthy. Hmmmm..... I asked follow-up questions about friction material, DD-ability/engagement/etc. We'll see what they say.
Sho
Silver Member
LMAO , he said that at ENM, and everyone laughed. It's not possible for a friction item to not wear. @Patrick Martz Called Kentucky clutch, who makes the disc and they laughed as well when they heard, that and said that's not true.
I highly doubt the pedal feel is true either, realgib3 has the older design and says it's stiffer than a 6 puck and closer to the feel of a twin disc. We'll know for sure soon, as Patrick ordered the "new harder compound" clutch, directly from KY clutch.
Patrick Martz
Greenie N00B Member
I'm not positive if I have the same disk as the new harder compound or not. I know he changed materials but KY clutch told me I have the strongest material they make. And if it's the strongest and they said I will most likely have to have it rebuilt yearly or every 20k miles (it will be less) then I know the material under mine, which I'm assuming is the RD clutch, isn't going to stand up to their claims. It's a wear item it will wear out and need replaced. The guy at KY sounded concerned when I told him that and just started saying we would never say that and we will never warranty that claim. KY also said that I will be on their hardest material and the clutch I'm getting SHOULD be able to hold my power level but no promises. And I will never have 850 wheel tq. Also tbh, there are no cars with that kind of power in Ohio, or in the USA as far as I know. So there is no way he has been able to test that. As far as I know I will be the highest power speed running this design and I don't know for sure if it will hold my power levels which I think should be high 600's whp and 600ish wheel tq.
I know RD is trying to get their name out there and they are doing really well, but to claim it's unwearable and can also hold 850 wheel tq is a bit of a stretch.
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I know RD is trying to get their name out there and they are doing really well, but to claim it's unwearable and can also hold 850 wheel tq is a bit of a stretch.
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lolz
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's like saying that there are brake pads that can last forever. In their defense, I don't think they expected us to literally think "forever," but the point was that it's extremely durable/long-lasting.
[doublepost=1462741694][/doublepost]
Point of clarification, they told me 650wtq, not 850wtq. Not sure where this 850 figure came from. Did someone say that number at ENM??