Need help, extremely rich A/f, rough idling, and lots of white smoke (data logs attached)

[Woodzms3]

hello everyone, pretty new here and looking for advice. so I've been chasing down this problem for quite some time, it all started when i swapped my oem catted down pipe back on for emissions from my catless dp also during that process I decided to clean the egr valve and throttle body. When I started it up I was running rough (drove it around the block once) I check my plugs after and they were covered in oil/gas and was getting white smoke from exhaust. After this I swapped back my catless downpipe thinking it would fix the problem but no the problem still occurs. since then I have replaced spark plugs, changed primary o2 sensor twice, upgraded my fuel injector seals thinking that was my problem and also replacing the pvc valve and of course checking for boost leaks with a boost leak tester. at this point I have checked almost everything mechanical only thing I haven't is the turbo which I doubt would be the issue( im at 75k on the odometer) and the internals of the engine. which leaves me with a electrical/ecu problem (check my logs while car idles) my rpms fluctuate and my stft and ltft aren't reading anything another weird thing is my throttle position maybe not reading right? it looks really off from when idling at 4% (I don't have my foot on it ). im pretty lost at this point, can it be a wiring issue or a sensor could of gone bad ? Any insight would be appreciated Thanks for checking.

Edit. mods: catless dp short ram intake, HPFP, tmic, occ, bpv, fuel injector seals, Cobb ap ots tune,

 

[The_big_dill]

hello everyone, pretty new here and looking for advice. so I've been chasing down this problem for quite some time, it all started when i swapped my oem catted down pipe back on for emissions from my catless dp also during that process I decided to clean the egr valve and throttle body. When I started it up I was running rough (drove it around the block once) I check my plugs after and they were covered in oil/gas and was getting white smoke from exhaust. After this I swapped back my catless downpipe thinking it would fix the problem but no the problem still occurs. since then I have replaced spark plugs, changed primary o2 sensor twice, upgraded my fuel injector seals thinking that was my problem and also replacing the pvc valve and of course checking for boost leaks with a boost leak tester. at this point I have checked almost everything mechanical only thing I haven't is the turbo which I doubt would be the issue( im at 75k on the odometer) and the internals of the engine. which leaves me with a electrical/ecu problem (check my logs while car idles) my rpms fluctuate and my stft and ltft aren't reading anything another weird thing is my throttle position maybe not reading right? it looks really off from when idling at 4% (I don't have my foot on it ). im pretty lost at this point, can it be a wiring issue or a sensor could of gone bad ? Any insight would be appreciated Thanks for checking.

Edit. mods: catless dp short ram intake, HPFP, tmic, occ, bpv, fuel injector seals, Cobb ap ots tune,

The computer I am using doesn't have excel but i will list my observations based on your comment.

It sounds like something went wrong in the process changing downpipes, or there is a coincidental part failure.

Did you change OTS tune between your DP swaps?

When you cleaner your throttle body, did you remove it from the car?
IF not, did you shoot a bunch of chemicals into the intake?
IF you removed throttle body, did you clean the gasket surfaces and replace with a new gasket?

Your Throttle position is also used for idle control, the ECU has control of that. APP (Accelerator pedal position) is what changes when you change your pedal.

 

[JohnnyTightlips]

Unplug your maf sensor and see how it runs/idles. I will take a look at the logs and see if anything sticks out.

Your STFT is -25 that means that you have a vac leak somewhere. -25 is the most it can correct so it is doing the best it can to try and keep the car running. You will want to do a boost leak test again and likely a vac smoke test. Some people have had issues with the Purge Valve going bad and that will show up as - trims.

Pre-turbo = + trims, air added or sucked in
turbo to TP = - trims, air lost or pushed out
post TP = + trims, air added or sucked in

 

[Woodzms3]

Unplug your maf sensor and see how it runs/idles. I will take a look at the logs and see if anything sticks out.

I have unplugged it and it makes the car idle worser than it is

Your STFT is -25 that means that you have a vac leak somewhere. -25 is the most it can correct so it is doing the best it can to try and keep the car running. You will want to do a boost leak test again and likely a vac smoke test. Some people have had issues with the Purge Valve going bad and that will show up as - trims.

Pre-turbo = + trims, air added or sucked in
turbo to TP = - trims, air lost or pushed out
post TP = + trims, air added or sucked in[/QUOTi.
is there any way to test the purge valve ? and how do I go about doing a vac leak test Is it the same as a boost leak test?

The computer I am using doesn't have excel but i will list my observations based on your comment.

It sounds like something went wrong in the process changing downpipes, or there is a coincidental part failure.

Did you change OTS tune between your DP swaps?

When you cleaner your throttle body, did you remove it from the car?
IF not, did you shoot a bunch of chemicals into the intake?
IF you removed throttle body, did you clean the gasket surfaces and replace with a new gasket?

Your Throttle position is also used for idle control, the ECU has control of that. APP (Accelerator pedal position) is what changes when you change your pedal.

that's one thing I forgot to do when I swapped downpipes I didn't change the tune but I did swap back the catless one right after it started to run bad. im going to reflash it later, as for the throttle body I took it out and cleaned it with a rag and no I didn't replace the gasket it still looked in good condition. you think i could be leaking from the tb gasket and explaining my negative fuel trim issue?

I have unplugged it and it makes the car idle worser than it is

is there anyway to test the purge valve? also Noob question I have not done a vac leak smoke test how do I go about doing one and what vac line I should hook it up too.

here is another file format instead of excel for my wierd throttle position

 

[SharksInSpace]

A boost leak test may help you locate a vac leak depending on where it is. You can build a cheap boost leak tester and smoke tester for probably about $40-50 combined. Boost leak you'll pressurize the system and listen for hissing or whistling where air is escaping, spray couplers and hoses and shit with some soapy water and watch for it to bubble up. Smoke test you fill the system with smoke, pressurize it a bit, and watch for it to escape through a cracked hose, blown gasket etc. Pretty easy to do each test and both are definitely beneficial for confirming or ruling out a simple leak.

 

[Woodzms3]

A boost leak test may help you locate a vac leak depending on where it is. You can build a cheap boost leak tester and smoke tester for probably about $40-50 combined. Boost leak you'll pressurize the system and listen for hissing or whistling where air is escaping, spray couplers and hoses and shit with some soapy water and watch for it to bubble up. Smoke test you fill the system with smoke, pressurize it a bit, and watch for it to escape through a cracked hose, blown gasket etc. Pretty easy to do each test and both are definitely beneficial for confirming or ruling out a simple leak.

ok yea I need to test for vac leaks with smoke. I have tested for boost leaks with a homemade boost leak tester but no luck finding obvious leaks.

 

[The_big_dill]

Since this problem only appeared after you did that work, I would criticize only the parts you touched.

The TB gasket should be replaced. Do that and make sure you torque it to spec. It is also recommended you tighten in stages to ensure the gasket seals properly. Each bolt to 5Nm, then 10Nm, etc. up to spec.

I tend to forget to plug in the bypass valve to the recirc tube or the vacuum reference pretty often, make sure you didn't forget something simple like that.

 

[SharksInSpace]

Pro-tip, a cheap harbor freight soldering iron stabbed into a jar with a baby oil soaked rag at the bottom will generate a lotta usable smoke. Attach one line out through the jar lid to your boost leak tester instead of the air compressor, and a second line out that you can blow into to pressurize the smoke into the system (doesn't need to be anything more than lung pressure, no compressor or anything). Seal everything up on the jar with jbweld or something to keep the smoke from escaping yer lil fancy homemade tester assembly. Watch for where it escapes in the engine bay and you'll find your leak(s).

 

[Woodzms3]

Since this problem only appeared after you did that work, I would criticize only the parts you touched.

The TB gasket should be replaced. Do that and make sure you torque it to spec. It is also recommended you tighten in stages to ensure the gasket seals properly. Each bolt to 5Nm, then 10Nm, etc. up to spec.

I tend to forget to plug in the bypass valve to the recirc tube or the vacuum reference pretty often, make sure you didn't forget something simple like that.

ok im going to order one and I've checked all my hoses and lines countless times so my problem could be the throttle body gasket or the the connection not reading right would you recommend getting a new TB?

Pro-tip, a cheap harbor freight soldering iron stabbed into a jar with a baby oil soaked rag at the bottom will generate a lotta usable smoke. Attach one line out through the jar lid to your boost leak tester instead of the air compressor, and a second line out that you can blow into to pressurize the smoke into the system (doesn't need to be anything more than lung pressure, no compressor or anything). Seal everything up on the jar with jbweld or something to keep the smoke from escaping yer lil fancy homemade tester assembly. Watch for where it escapes in the engine bay and you'll find your leak(s).

awesome thank you sharksinspace im going make one this weekend. ill update you guys on it

 

[SharksInSpace]

For reference, this ugly looking thing is the one I built. I kept having to go back at it with the jbweld to seal up every little leak in the assembly but once that was done and set, she is definitely effective. The white pcv cap is my boost leak tester.

 

[Woodzms3]

For reference, this ugly looking thing is the one I built. I kept having to go back at it with the jbweld to seal up every little leak in the assembly but once that was done and set, she is definitely effective. The white pcv cap is my boost leak tester.
View attachment 16040 View attachment 16041

nice!! these pics are going to help me out a lot Thanks!

 

[The_big_dill]

Continuing from the other thread:

IF you had 0% throttle at idle, your throttle plate would be closed and your car will starve. As L337 said, its required for idle and I wouldn't assume your throttle body is bad because of that.

Please record another log with ALL sensor values enabled.

If you floor the gas pedal, how does your car respond?

 

[Woodzms3]

Continuing from the other thread:

IF you had 0% throttle at idle, your throttle plate would be closed and your car will starve. As L337 said, its required for idle and I wouldn't assume your throttle body is bad because of that.

Please record another log with ALL sensor values enabled.

If you floor the gas pedal, how does your car respond?

Ok makes sense Ill check how it responds but seems normal when reving it to 3k and can u give me a specific list on what sensor values to log ? Ill try and record one later.


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[The_big_dill]

Ok makes sense Ill check how it responds but seems normal when reving it to 3k and can u give me a specific list on what sensor values to log ? Ill try and record one later.


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Well, we are trying to diagnose the problem, and log frequency is not a priority yet, so I recommend you capture all sensors. This way It gives me opportunity to catch any data that doesn't look right. If you are using access port, this shouldnt be difficult to do.

At the very least, try to capture APP, injector pulse width, coolant temp.

Here is the key information:

- White smoke from the exhaust, especially after the car has warmed up. Can you get your car up to temps and see? How much white smoke are you seeing?
- All 4 plugs are coated in fuel/oil to the same extreme: This tells me its not likely to be a bad injector because all 4 are showing a similar condition.
- Vacuum readings are good and responsive to conditions: Although, you reach almost -12PSI and that is lower than I have seen on my car.
- O2 readings respond to engine conditions reasonably: When you raise the RPM and let off the gas, it goes into "fuel cut" mode, which brings up your AFRs appropriately.
- Fuel pressures look appropriate for the engine load.

 

[Woodzms3]

Well, we are trying to diagnose the problem, and log frequency is not a priority yet, so I recommend you capture all sensors. This way It gives me opportunity to catch any data that doesn't look right. If you are using access port, this shouldnt be difficult to do.

At the very least, try to capture APP, injector pulse width, coolant temp.

Here is the key information:

- White smoke from the exhaust, especially after the car has warmed up. Can you get your car up to temps and see? How much white smoke are you seeing?
- All 4 plugs are coated in fuel/oil to the same extreme: This tells me its not likely to be a bad injector because all 4 are showing a similar condition.
- Vacuum readings are good and responsive to conditions: Although, you reach almost -12PSI and that is lower than I have seen on my car.
- O2 readings respond to engine conditions reasonably: When you raise the RPM and let off the gas, it goes into "fuel cut" mode, which brings up your AFRs appropriately.
- Fuel pressures look appropriate for the engine load.

Thanks ill upload some logs tomorrow


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[Woodzms3]

Well, we are trying to diagnose the problem, and log frequency is not a priority yet, so I recommend you capture all sensors. This way It gives me opportunity to catch any data that doesn't look right. If you are using access port, this shouldnt be difficult to do.

At the very least, try to capture APP, injector pulse width, coolant temp.

Here is the key information:

- White smoke from the exhaust, especially after the car has warmed up. Can you get your car up to temps and see? How much white smoke are you seeing?
- All 4 plugs are coated in fuel/oil to the same extreme: This tells me its not likely to be a bad injector because all 4 are showing a similar condition.
- Vacuum readings are good and responsive to conditions: Although, you reach almost -12PSI and that is lower than I have seen on my car.
- O2 readings respond to engine conditions reasonably: When you raise the RPM and let off the gas, it goes into "fuel cut" mode, which brings up your AFRs appropriately.
- Fuel pressures look appropriate for the engine load.

 

[Woodzms3]

ok so started the car up today what I noticed was that as soon as I turn the car up HUGE amount of smoke pours out the tail pipes (smoke all over my house) on cold start. once the car starts to idle down the smoke coming out decreases somewhat but once it reaches operating temps more smoke starts coming out and the car begins to want to stall out. here is a log I got, for some reason the gauges I selected on the AP won't come up when I use the Accessport manager / excel. im going to keep on attempting to log those sensors you mentioned but sofar this is what I logged. ill try and upload more logs tomorrow

 

[The_big_dill]

It really sounds like it's time for a turbo replacement.

Ill have a look at the logs tomorrow when i have access to a computer.

Is there a noticeable loss of oil?

If you get a chance pull some intake components and look for pooling oil.

These engines suffer from weak PCV systems and when neglected they clog up. When the crank case pressure cannot be vented it builds up enough to block up your oil drain for the turbo. The oil supply to the turbo will be much higher than the drain. So if the oil can't go through the drain or supply, it will go through the turbo seals. This will get burned up in the exhaust or introduced into your engine for consumption.

When oil is burned it tends to smoke quite a bit. If its present when the engine is fully warmed up, it is likely a constant supply.

 

[Woodzms3]

It really sounds like it's time for a turbo replacement.

Ill have a look at the logs tomorrow when i have access to a computer.

Is there a noticeable loss of oil?

If you get a chance pull some intake components and look for pooling oil.

These engines suffer from weak PCV systems and when neglected they clog up. When the crank case pressure cannot be vented it builds up enough to block up your oil drain for the turbo. The oil supply to the turbo will be much higher than the drain. So if the oil can't go through the drain or supply, it will go through the turbo seals. This will get burned up in the exhaust or introduced into your engine for consumption.

When oil is burned it tends to smoke quite a bit. If its present when the engine is fully warmed up, it is likely a constant supply.

Ahh yes when the problem first occurred there was a pool of oil in my intake, throttle and there was also oil in the downpipe. No loss of oil ( because the car never got up to temps and never drove it since the issue)but like I mentioned earlier there was fuel in my oil so dip stick was over the max. My oil is diluted so im guessing its burning way easier causing alot of smoke and a fuel/ oil smell. But like the other guys thread his problem was also bad turbo and also had fuel in oil ( our issues were a like ) and he solved it with a new turbo. And could a turbo still spool up with bad seals? thats were a have mixed thoughts on could it really be my turbo. Im going to put fresh oil in and see how it runs tomorrow.


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[The_big_dill]

Ahh yes when the problem first occurred there was a pool of oil in my intake, throttle and there was also oil in the downpipe. No loss of oil ( because the car never got up to temps and never drove it since the issue)but like I mentioned earlier there was fuel in my oil so dip stick was over the max. My oil is diluted so im guessing its burning way easier causing alot of smoke and a fuel/ oil smell. But like the other guys thread his problem was also bad turbo and also had fuel in oil ( our issues were a like ) and he solved it with a new turbo. And could a turbo still spool up with bad seals? thats were a have mixed thoughts on could it really be my turbo. Im going to put fresh oil in and see how it runs tomorrow.


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Turbo could could be unaffected in performance by the seals. In fact, you can have a turbo with no shaft play and bad seals. That being said, the main reason they fail is due to an unhealthy PCV system. Have you replaced your PCV valve?

Unfortunately you can never be 100% certain on the cause. But your symptoms and historical problems with these cars are all pointing to a very likely candidate.