Repair crisis! Advice needed.

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ipmcc

Greenie N00B Member
I’m looking for some advice…

I’ve got a 2008 MS3 with relatively low mileage for its age (86,000). I’m the original owner, I’ve taken good care of it, but it’s reaching that age when things start to go wrong. Given the current state of the US auto market, I would rather not replace it right now, but I’m staring down some pretty big repair estimates, and would love a second/community opinion.

The big problem is that the Variable Valve Timing mechanism is dead, and just makes this annoying rattling noise on cold starts. Everyone I’ve talked to (so far) claims this is an engine-out (despite there being a youtube video of someone doing it engine-in, but I digress…) The dealer wants $3,400 for the job. An independent shop quoted me $4,000, and two other indie shops said they simply wouldn’t take the job as it’s 'too hard for them'.

The car also needs a new set of summer tires, as its old ones are dangerously bald at this point. (I figure: $800 + installation)

While the stock clutch shows no signs of slipping, it’s got 86,000 miles on it, and has definitely seen some... let's say, ‘mild abuse’, so if I were going to pull the engine to do the VVT fix, I’d be inclined to also do the clutch while it’s out. (Another $700 + labor)

I recently put on a new set of Koni Yellows all-around ($700 + labor), but that’s a sunk cost at this point.

KBB says the car is worth right around $4,500, so you can probably relate to my hesitance to put even more than that into it for repairs.

The dealer tech was kind enough to tell me that I could probably drive the car another 50,000mi with the VVT mechanism non-functioning, as long as I’m willing to tolerate the noise, get crappy (or I should say ‘even crappier’) gas mileage, and as long as I “go easy on it.” I didn’t buy an MS3 to “go easy on it”, but after that diagnosis, I stocked-out the ECU, and I’ve been driving the car like a grandma for 4 months in this state and nothing seems too horrible.

So I guess the question is: If you were in this situation, at this particular moment w/r/t the US auto market with all its supply chain issues, would you do the VVT/Clutch/Tires fixes on a 14 year old (albeit low mileage) car? Or would you just leave the VVT broken, run the winter tires (to avoid buying new summers), and drive it till it dies?

Thanks!
Ian
 
You "stocked" out the ECU? What were you running? Some crap OTS map?

VVT can be done in the car, it helps having all the proper tools. I'm a tech so to me it was easy, just time consuming. However for you it may be different. The cold start rattle could be low oil, incorrect oil weight, failing timing chain tensioner. Hard to say without diagnosing it myself. If the VVT had any issues it would throw a code as that system is critical for engine operation. As for how long it could last? Well it could completely fail as I'm typing this or it could last a while. It depends on your driving habits, maintenance, etc.

You also said you bought an MS3 not to "go easy on it" but dogging the car out and driving hard all the time is gonna wear it down really fast. If you're looking for something to beat on constantly get a Civic. These cars can be extremely reliable and last a long time if they are treated right.
 
KBB doesn't reflect the used market. If the car is in pretty good cosmetic condition, and you have a solid compression test, with that mileage you can probably get closer to 8k for it.

A VVT job at a shop shouldn't cost more than $1500 and does not require engine out, those shops are high (in both senses of the word. We also have guides if you want to attempt a DIY, such as this one - Installing VVT and Timing Components | Mazdaspeeds.org, The New Era in Mazdaspeed, CX-7 & Ecoboost Forums! (engine out) and this one How To: Mazdaspeed 3/Mazdaspeed 6/CX-7 VVT The Roku Way | Mazdaspeeds.org, The New Era in Mazdaspeed, CX-7 & Ecoboost Forums! (engine in).
 
L337TurboZ said:
You "stocked" out the ECU? What were you running? Some crap OTS map?
Click to expand...

Yes, I am not a 31337 tuner. I was running the Cobb Stage 1+ OTS 93+ map, and was enjoying it quite a bit for a number of years, thanks! One man's trash is another man's treasure, I guess.

I've had the issue diagnosed by a dealer and an indie shop, both agreed that it's the VVT actuator that's busted, and that it would be an engine-out job. I've had full-synthetic oil changes, on schedule, the entire time I've owned the car, and once again since the rattle popped up, so I'm reasonably confident it's not an oil issue.

In a world where I didn't have other responsibilities, I would do the work myself and just accept that it will take as long as it takes. As things are though, I work 60+ hours a week, I can't be without a car for multiple weeks, nor do I feel confident I have the space required to do a job this complex in my home garage. So, while I appreciate the how-to links, and would love to wrench on this thing myself every day, I've got work and a family and other things consuming most of my time, and requiring me to have reliable transportation. To be clear: this is my daily driver.

I am more curious about this assertion that I should be able to get the VVT job done for $1,500. What should I be looking for as I talk to shops to find one that will do it for a price like that? As mentioned, I've been quoted $3,400, $4,000, and two instances of "we won't do this at all". So clearly I'm talking to the wrong shops, or asking the wrong questions when I do. Any tips? Thanks!

Regards,
Ian

EDIT: And for the record, I did have a Civic that I beat the living crap out of immediately before buying the MS3. :)
 
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ipmcc said:
Yes, I am not a 31337 tuner. I was running the Cobb Stage 1+ OTS 93+ map, and was enjoying it quite a bit for a number of years, thanks! One man's trash is another man's treasure, I guess.

I've had the issue diagnosed by a dealer and an indie shop, both agreed that it's the VVT actuator that's busted, and that it would be an engine-out job. I've had full-synthetic oil changes, on schedule, the entire time I've owned the car, and once again since the rattle popped up, so I'm reasonably confident it's not an oil issue.

In a world where I didn't have other responsibilities, I would do the work myself and just accept that it will take as long as it takes. As things are though, I work 60+ hours a week, I can't be without a car for multiple weeks, nor do I feel confident I have the space required to do a job this complex in my home garage. So, while I appreciate the how-to links, and would love to wrench on this thing myself every day, I've got work and a family and other things consuming most of my time, and requiring me to have reliable transportation. To be clear: this is my daily driver.

I am more curious about this assertion that I should be able to get the VVT job done for $1,500. What should I be looking for as I talk to shops to find one that will do it for a price like that? As mentioned, I've been quoted $3,400, $4,000, and two instances of "we won't do this at all". So clearly I'm talking to the wrong shops, or asking the wrong questions when I do. Any tips? Thanks!

Regards,
Ian

EDIT: And for the record, I did have a Civic that I beat the living crap out of immediately before buying the MS3. :)
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I got all of the VVT stuff from my local Mazda dealer for 600 dollars minus the cost of oil and other stuff such as RTV. So for around 700 plus the timing tools off edge you could do the job less than a 1k yourself. Those parts included the actuator, valve cover gasket, friction washers, bolts, chain, tensioner etc.

OTS maps are crap btw. They are just starting points to allow you to drive the car until you get it professionally tuned. Excessively rich AFRs, less timing. Not trashing you just saying they are generally bad.

In terms of time if you set aside a Saturday and started early morning you can be done by nightfall if doing it on the floor in your garage.

The question comes down to is this car really worth your time and effort? If not don't keep driving it till it dies, just sell it now and make it clear what it needs.

Also I looked up labor time on AllData and it calls for 5 hours to do the timing chain. Add maybe an hour to hour and a half labor for replacement of the VVT stuff and you're looking at 7 hours max.

My dealership charges 170 per hour so even at that rate it would be 1200 for labor plus tax not including parts. This is only for the timing chain replacement. You're being excessively over charged and you can negotiate the cost. Hope that helps.

EDIT: I saw you were getting quotes for the timing chain/VVT and a clutch. Clutch disc replacement calls for 8.2 + .2 for flywheel R/R and .2 for Rear Main seal. At 170 an hour you'd be paying 1462 for labor alone plus tax.
 
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Wow that nuts, for a VVT job. I do them all the time, my rate is 500. I do them in about 3 hours if i don't run into any issues. You can always trailer it to jersey, still be cheaper than any dealer or local shop.
 
rrodriguez9921 said:
Wow that nuts, for a VVT job. I do them all the time, my rate is 500. I do them in about 3 hours if i don't run into any issues. You can always trailer it to jersey, still be cheaper than any dealer or local shop.
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What's nuts? The rate the guy was quoted or the rate I quoted as if done through my service department? If I do side work I charge 80 an hour which is half the shop cost and puts my labor right in line with yours just slightly higher at near 600.
 
honestly you could rent a car for a week and do it yourself and still come out ahead
 
I was referring to the comment about the engine having to come out, to do the job. Same way mazda told me the only way to do the water pump on my cx-9 was to drop the motor. Is ok I'll passed.. did it at home in a few hours also.
 
rrodriguez9921 said:
Wow that nuts, for a VVT job. I do them all the time, my rate is 500. I do them in about 3 hours if i don't run into any issues. You can always trailer it to jersey, still be cheaper than any dealer or local shop.
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Hey man, im in new jersey and looking to buy a speed3 soon so i’ll definitely need to get that done soon, id totally drive over where can i get in contact with you?
 
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