Safe Tune

Ratherbehunting

Ratherbehunting

Greenie N00B Member
As I posted in the new member section, I finally have some time to work on my tune. I pulled the data log attached today. It's a fourth gear pull from 2200 to 6200. I was shooting for 6500 on the top end, but guess I was a little gun shy at triple digit speed, especially since my logging on / logging off right hand is the wife. She's adventurous, but there are limits! She still remembers when my time spent on my Chevelle's and Camaro's resulted in lose of license and very high insurance rates for many years....Anyway

I just want to ensure that all is safe with my existing tune. From everything I've been able to read on the subject, fuel pressure is good, but I'm concerned with AFR's. I've read AFR's should not exceed +/- 5%. I'm not sure how you calculate that. I think it means ARF should be (since target AFR is 11.6:1 with my current tune shown in my signature - 93 octane) between 11.02:1 and 12:18:1. My log shows 10.9:1 on a couple of samples around 2300 rpm. Also, I'm showing 35% knock retard at ~2700 and ~5000 with 70% retard at ~4600 to ~4800. I went thorough and made sure none of my piping was hitting anywhere to cause false knocking. I certainly didn't hear anything when I was logging the data.

All I'm really trying to ascertain at this point is the tune is safe. I "think" it is from what I've been able to read so far, except for the couple of questions I stated. But a second opinion from someone with more experience would be appreciated.
 

Attachments

Ratherbehunting said:
As I posted in the new member section, I finally have some time to work on my tune. I pulled the data log attached today. It's a fourth gear pull from 2200 to 6200. I was shooting for 6500 on the top end, but guess I was a little gun shy at triple digit speed, especially since my logging on / logging off right hand is the wife. She's adventurous, but there are limits! She still remembers when my time spent on my Chevelle's and Camaro's resulted in lose of license and very high insurance rates for many years....Anyway

I just want to ensure that all is safe with my existing tune. From everything I've been able to read on the subject, fuel pressure is good, but I'm concerned with AFR's. I've read AFR's should not exceed +/- 5%. I'm not sure how you calculate that. I think it means ARF should be (since target AFR is 11.6:1 with my current tune shown in my signature - 93 octane) between 11.02:1 and 12:18:1. My log shows 10.9:1 on a couple of samples around 2300 rpm. Also, I'm showing 35% knock retard at ~2700 and ~5000 with 70% retard at ~4600 to ~4800. I went thorough and made sure none of my piping was hitting anywhere to cause false knocking. I certainly didn't hear anything when I was logging the data.

All I'm really trying to ascertain at this point is the tune is safe. I "think" it is from what I've been able to read so far, except for the couple of questions I stated. But a second opinion from someone with more experience would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
So, just to be clear, is this a self-tune or OTS tune?

1) First thing I immediately notice is you going WOT @ 2,200rpms. That's a perfect recipe to vent your block. The rule of thumb is to never WOT under 3,000 rpms, and I personally try to stay above 3,500 in 5th. I never WOT in 6th. AGAIN, NEVER WOT THAT LOW. Seriously. It's not as big of a deal in 3rd since it's not as long of a gear, but it's never good to tempt fate about this rule of thumb. I've lost count of how many zoom, zoom, booms and bent rods I've seen because of this.

2) Knock Retard (KR) isn't a percentage. It's a value (that can be modified elsewhere in the tune) that shows how many degrees of retarded ECU timing your tune pulled out due to detecting knock. On my personal tune, the amount of timing pulled is actually double logged KR. For instance, if I had KR of 1, my ECU would pull 2 degrees of timing momentarily to bring things back into check.

3) Since the AFR target is 11.6, you're having some issues (more below). It's normal to see variation, maybe in the 11.4-11.8 range (+/- 0.2). It's also normal to see initial throttle tip-in richness. I'm not sure about how SWAS works on a Won, but on my Pu, I'd see throttle tip-in AFRs in the 9.xx range before I disconnected my SWAS. I still see tip-in richness now, but it's not as pronounced.

4) Adding Accelerator Pedal Position as a logged value is helpful when tuning and analyzing logs.

5) Overall, FP looks good, and it's better to be rich than lean. Based upon that, I'd say it's safe, but it's definitely not optimized and points to either 1) mechanical issues, like a boost leak, 2) the possibility of needing to adjust the open loop section of your MAF to bring AFRs in check (especially assuming your target is 11.6), or 3) both.

6) The most important thing (worthy of repeat): DO NOT WOT at 2,200 or anywhere close to that low again unless you have a build fund set aside so you don't have a lot of down time when you grenade the block and need to do a motor swap.

On another note, I'd ditch that MS CAI. They're not proven to really help at all. At least get a decent SRI from Cobb, JBR, or CS. If it were me, I'd get an HTP 3" (which you'll have to tune for, since it has a much larger cross section). The benefit of going that route is that 1) it's future-proofing if you get a bigger turbo, and 2) it replaces the turbo inlet pipe too.

Hope this helps...
 
Last edited:
Redline said:
So, just to be clear, is this a self-tune or OTS tune?

1) First thing I immediately notice is you going WOT @ 2,200rpms. That's a perfect recipe to vent your block. The rule of thumb is to never WOT under 3,000 rpms, and I personally try to stay above 3,500 in 5th. I never WOT in 6th. AGAIN, NEVER WOT THAT LOW. Seriously. It's not as big of a deal in 3rd since it's not as long of a gear, but it's never good to tempt fate about this rule of thumb. I've lost count of how many zoom, zoom, booms and bent rods I've seen because of this.

2) Knock Retard (KR) isn't a percentage. It's a value (that can be modified elsewhere in the tune) that shows how many degrees of retarded ECU timing your tune pulled out due to detecting knock. On my personal tune, the amount of timing pulled is actually double logged KR. For instance, if I had KR of 1, my ECU would pull 2 degrees of timing momentarily to bring things back into check.

3) Since the AFR target is 11.6, you're having some issues (more below). It's normal to see variation, maybe in the 11.4-11.8 range (+/- 0.2). It's also normal to see initial throttle tip-in richness. I'm not sure about how SWAS works on a Won, but on my Pu, I'd see throttle tip-in AFRs in the 9.xx range before I disconnected my SWAS. I still see tip-in richness now, but it's not as pronounced.

4) Adding Accelerator Pedal Position as a logged value is helpful when tuning and analyzing logs.

5) Overall, FP looks good, and it's better to be rich than lean. Based upon that, I'd say it's safe, but it's definitely not optimized and points to either 1) mechanical issues, like a boost leak, 2) the possibility of needing to adjust the open loop section of your MAF to bring AFRs in check (especially assuming your target is 11.6), or 3) both.

6) The most important thing (worthy of repeat): DO NOT WOT at 2,200 or anywhere close to that low again unless you have a build fund set aside so you don't have a lot of down time when you grenade the block and need to do a motor swap.

On another note, I'd ditch that MS CAI. They're not proven to really help at all. At least get a decent SRI from Cobb, JBR, or CS. If it were me, I'd get an HTP 3" (which you'll have to tune for, since it has a much larger cross section). The benefit of going that route is that 1) it's future-proofing if you get a bigger turbo, and 2) it replaces the turbo inlet pipe too.

Hope this helps...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback Redline!
This is an OTS tune
Got you loud and clear on the WOT @2200 RPM, obviously I have much to learn in general utilizing the data from the logs. I'll also investigate the different available CAI.
Thanks again for taking the time to review the log and provide feedback! Much appreciated!
 
Ratherbehunting said:
Thanks for the feedback Redline!
This is an OTS tune
Got you loud and clear on the WOT @2200 RPM, obviously I have much to learn in general utilizing the data from the logs. I'll also investigate the different available CAI.
Thanks again for taking the time to review the log and provide feedback! Much appreciated!
Click to expand...
No prob, man. We were are newbs at one time. And just to be clear, I wouldn't get a CAI. Our cars don't really seem to benefit from them. If anything, get a short-ram intake (SRI), like from James Barone Racing, Corksport, or COBB; or get a full 3" intake from HTP (which includes the turbo inlet pipe section too), which will future-proof you if you ever get a bigger turbo. Stock-sized intakes become maxed out pretty quick when you upgrade the turbo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top