Spill Valve Seized?

[Jonb]

Hi All,

I am in the process of rebuilding my hpfp with E85 o rings. When trying to disassemble the spill valve, it was almost impossible to dismantle. Basically had to rig a setup with clamps I use for woodworking.

I finally removed, cleaned, and replaced the o ring. The problem now is I cannot reassemble the valve. So I guess my question is; Is it supposed to be this difficult to complete this step, or am I just a little bitch?

 

[Awafrican]

spill valve I do not recall being that much of a pain, removing the internals was a harder task. The spill valve should go back together by hand I think you may have a seized one, do you see any maring on it? any pics?


https://www.mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/hpfp-o-ring-rebuild-michael-rey-facebook-kit.8069/

@Enki @Easter Bunny are more familiar with the fuel system than I, hopefully they weigh in.

 

[Easter Bunny]

I don't know shit

 

[Enki]

I hope you're only taking out the needle and such. If you are doing it properly, all you really need to worry about is that it doesnt fall apart when you put it back together; reinstalling will finish the assembly.

Post some pics of where you're at now please.

 

[Jonb]

Hey all. My apologies for not replying as I did not get any notifications/emails that anyone replied. Either that, or my ADD-ass saw it, thought to myself I’ll reply later, then got distracted by a shinny object and forgot about it. I personally hate that and find it rude to not get at least a “I got it, thank you.”.

So funny enough I got her back together (after cleaning the valves, getting inj cleaned and tested, and other things),and am having fueling issues, took it back apart, and I was googling symptoms and brought me back to this thread I started lol.

@Enki I am not sure what you mean by only taking our the needle. The pic attached is the CS guide I am using to replace the oring on the valve where it has me pushing the outer body with the threads down in order to remove the retaining clips to disassemble to remove the oring.

With the valve off for the second time, I am now able to move the outer body by hand in order to remove the retainers.

Symptoms I am having is showing only ITFP pressures at idle, and even when revving. Hot engine, KOEO, FP doesnt climb past 120, and drops slowly. Hit 99 before turning off. So it points to user error. When taking off the HPFP yesterday, when loosening the three bolts to remove, the HPFP kind of just popped out about an inch. When doing it originally I remember it being in there tight, and having to gently pry with a flat head to start the removal process. So that was a flag. I also did check for continuity before removing.

Also I removed the spill valve before taking the HPFP housing off the vehicle and I was able to turn it by hand. I know its not supposed to be on there super tight, but I believe a wrench should have been needed to start it.

The lifter appears to not have any marring on it, but does have two places where it appears darker. Each on the opposite sides of each other.

So, I am going to reinstall again probably tomorrow and try it again. Also just wanted to thank all of yall. Had the Speed for about 10 years now, and when searching for answers throughout those years, all of yalls posts have definitely helped and saved my ass on more than one occasion. Ill make sure to check back here occasionally this time.

 

[Jonb]

Just realized I don’t hear the HPFP ticking last night while I was posting to a Facebook group (I know, I know). So I’m going to pull the internals, look again for marring, and reinstall.

 

[Enki]

Before you do that, get some Redline injector cleaner; use that to clean and lube the parts. When you put the HPFP back on the engine, leave the spill valve loose, and prime the pump by filling it to the bottom thread with Redline, then fully install the spill valve.

 

[Jonb]

Before you do that, get some Redline injector cleaner; use that to clean and lube the parts. When you put the HPFP back on the engine, leave the spill valve loose, and prime the pump by filling it to the bottom thread with Redline, then fully install the spill valve.

Gracias, just to recap, take the spill valve out, remove the internals (hpfp is already back on engine) clean/lube little bit with red line injector cleaner, install leaving spill valve loose, prime fuel system, remove spill valve and fill with redline to bottom of the threads. Tighten.

I’ll also check to see if the needle is able to move as I understand that now.

 

[Enki]

No you prime it by filling the HPFP with the injector cleaner. A small bottle will last you a long time, even with being very generous using it to lube/prime the pump.

Also, to be clear, you clean the pump with ideally lighter fluid (naphtha, which you can get at the local hardware store as a solvent), then lube with Redline and reassemble, then reinstall the pump on the car, and THEN remove the spill valve and fill to the bottom visible thread (the one closest to the front of the car, as the pump is angled when reinstalled; going much further than the bottom thread makes a bit of a mess).

 

[Jonb]

Awesome, appreciate it. I’ll give it a go in a few days.

 

[Jonb]

@Enki many thanks Good Sir

 

[Enki]

What exactly did you do, and how was it different from the last time you did similar? This will be critical for determining root cause.

 

[Jonb]

What exactly did you do, and how was it different from the last time you did similar? This will be critical for determining root cause.

Unsure. First time cleaned with brakeclean and lined with oil. This time lighter fluid and lubed with Redline from your suggestion.

I did notice the connector that connects to the spill valve tab broke. I made sure it was on there. This time secured it by zip tying it closed around the blue fuel feed line. Definitely not staying like this for a long time.

Also recleaned and lubed the piston and the spill valve. I feel like they both move more freely now.

Tq’d the spill valve on the housing a bit more snug this time as I couldn’t find a spec.

Whatever the reason it’s fixed after you suggestion. Thanks again.

 

[Enki]

Ah, that would be it.

My tests indicate that oil breaks down in the pump, causing a sticky situation (black death, sticky death). Lubricating with engine oil is not a great option, and I'm sure mixing brake cleaner (esp if chlorinated) didn't help much.

Cleaning with lighter fluid gets everything off and leaves at worst a non stickifying residue and at best nothing behind, while the Redline does a good job of not breaking down in the pump itself. It WILL, however, cycle out due to the nature of how the HPFP works, though, so owning a cooking/automotive syringe is a good idea because you can use it to remove/purge out the contents of the HPFP without having to fully rebuild it.

 

[Jonb]

How does the syringe come into play?

 

[Enki]

You can use it to drain as much fuel and shit out of the pump as possible, then flush it with Redline until it looks good, then put the spill valve back on. Saves on having to do a full rebuild often.


I bought one of these kits and used the big guy with the green needle:
Amazon product ASIN B07YB8SYCG

 

[Jonb]

Good shit. I’m unsure if I would have had to do all of this if the car didn’t sit for 7ish months with E25 in the tank. Even then the pump was clean with only a very minimal amount of a film on some parts. But good to know this will work as well. Thank you.

 

[Enki]

The "sticky death" doesn't look like much but is just as bad for HPFP performance. If any part of the inside of that pump felt sticky to the touch, even a little, that's probably what the issue is.

Surprisingly enough, this issue is best negated by using specific engine oils.

 

[Jonb]

Yeah I was in the Brotella train for many years. In the past year or so I’ve been focusing on maintenance while doing some repairs. Looked back into the toddler-like conversation of which oil is best and came across the TriboDyn line. Started using it for gear oil and just recently using it in the engine as well after reading some stellar reviews. I think I read somewhere you’re a fan of either AMSOIL or RP. Or could have been TriboDyn. Either way only have under 200 miles so far and seems to be alright. UOA will shed some light into its performance with the understanding that they’re not the end-all-be-all.

 

[Enki]

I use RP, and have for a while because it works, but I may go 100% trib whenever i do the new motor (already have it in the trans).