What to expect from aftermarket TMIC to Tr8 FMIC

T

TripppleP

Greenie N00B Member
Greenie Member
I am going to be installing my Tr8 with CX racing pipes hopefully this week. I'm currently running a CP-e TMIC and am pleased. I have been trying to pay attention to my BATs and it seems the current TMIC hovers around 20-30 degrees over ambient temps. Of course the temps go way up when stopped for prolonged periods like traffic lights or stopping shortly at a store.

I will find out soon enough what my BATs end up at when I get the FMIC installed and will report back. I'll also report back my perception of the spool delay everyone seems to talk about when going TMIC to FMIC.

I somewhat made this post as this is a common situation a lot of speed owners go through and it could be a reference in the future.

So, how did you BAT temps change with a FMIC set-up? Got anything to say?
 
Unless you spend the time to deal off all of the air gaps and make sure air is going through the intercooler and radiator you will likely see no difference.

The cpe core is very high quality the tr8 is good but not as god
 
Going to FMIC my BATs went down pretty noticeably but lag increased noticeably. I’d definitely go under routed hot pipe and clock the turbo if I did it again. Not only would it have been better, but having a hot pipe cross over top of the engine is a giant pain in the ass whenever you need to take off the valve cover, replace spark plugs, etc. It’s literally ALWAYS in the way. The 90* coupler coming off the turbo (the absolute hottest part of the entire turbo system) being silicone is also extremely prone to wear. I’ve already had to replace mine once because the original one got to a point it started to balloon in boost.


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I went from a tr10, back to a TMIC (ETS core).

With FMIC and aftermarket crashbar... BAT's were about 30* maybe a bit more above ambient. ECT's were about 100* above ambient. They would both oscillate temps depending on speed and engine load.

With TMIC and OEM front end sealed extra tight... BAT's are 15* above ambient, and ECT's are 85-90* above ambient. Temp control is so stable its stupid.

This is all highway driving with ambient temperatures between 85-95* in Florida.

As far as turbo lag, lag was maybe 300rpms or so. The turbo lag was so small it's hard to tell, I'd have to dig up some old logs to verify. Throttle response was a different story. With a FMIC you would feel the turbo slowly reach its efficiency and then away you went. With a TMIC boost is a hair faster but it is much MUCH smoother.

As far as piping, I had the HTP under engine kit which is great quality. The only problem with it is the piping is always in the way. If you drain your catch can, change oil, do certain suspension work, or even anything with the turbo or exhaust, the fucking pipes are always in the way. A TMIC is always in the way of anything along the top of the engine, but the advantage is you only have 2 couplers to tighten. The FMIC piping had 6 couplers, and any one would leak at random times even with new tbolt clamps and pressurizing the system to verify boost load.

That's just my experience. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't waste my time or money with a FMIC whether you are on k04 or a big turbo.
 
I recently purchased a Whitezilla GV Grille but I keep reading that TMICs might be the way to go for money and performance. I would love to have a beautiful intercooler filling the open mouth of the grille but I keep hearing about the piping, gaps, leaks etc.

I'm currently running a CS 3.5in, HPFP, AP V3, CS Stage 2 RMM and at 150K miles. I don't plan on upgrading the k04 unless it blows but have had no issues yet. Currently running on PD tune.

Lastly I'm in Texas so HOT! would the FMIC be more beneficial or the weather? PS, not racing at all, spirited drives on the toll and small bursts around town lol
 
Trey said:
I recently purchased a Whitezilla GV Grille but I keep reading that TMICs might be the way to go for money and performance. I would love to have a beautiful intercooler filling the open mouth of the grille but I keep hearing about the piping, gaps, leaks etc.

I'm currently running a CS 3.5in, HPFP, AP V3, CS Stage 2 RMM and at 150K miles. I don't plan on upgrading the k04 unless it blows but have had no issues yet. Currently running on PD tune.

Lastly I'm in Texas so HOT! would the FMIC be more beneficial or the weather? PS, not racing at all, spirited drives on the toll and small bursts around town lol
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Im from the DFW area so I know your pain with the texas heat. Ill say that if you are trying to push your K04 aggressively, you will notice an increase in how the car pulls in the higher end of the rpm range as well as how it pulls after staying in boost longer. I compared my data-logs from my old CPE TMIC vs my TR8 FMIC data-logs and saw that the BATs were about 10-15° cooler while cruising which is nice, but the main benefit is that BATs stayed completely level while I was in boost which is what actually matters. The consistency of a FMIC is significantly better, making it very difficult to heat soak. Im sure you’re experiencing problems with the TMIC heat soaking already. Even with a well designed and nice piece like the CPE unit, theres just not a lot that can be done about placing an intercooler right on top of an engine.

Comparatively, with my old CPE TMIC, boost temps would start out at a higher temperature and creep up as I stayed in boost. Not good for power especially if you're doing a highway pull in the upper gears like 4th to 6th because it tends to just keep rising.

Both the TMIC and FMIC have their perks, I would give the win for the TMIC in throttle response for sure, making it better suited for autocross and light street use. If you're going for a big turbo setup and often race your speed or just want the extra power, a FMIC with a good core is the way to go. As for the issues with leaky couplers and stuff, I wouldn’t consider it to be a big problem. Sure if you’re using the CX racing kit, you’re going to have to fine tune your couplers and get them fitted nice because frankly the kit doesn't fit all that well. Just make sure you are using t-bolt clamps and clamping right before tge edge in the pipes so that they cant push themselves off in boost. Its whats going to hold everything together. If you get on top of or in front of the little hump there they will eventually pop off.
 
Im using the CX Racing FMIC but with a Treadstone TR8 core. The pipes and couplers worked perfectly for me. I didn't have to trim or modify much. The TR8 Has different mounting points so I wasnt able to use the upper brackets that came in the CX kit. Instead I used the lower mounting brackets wrapped with felt tape to push the IC against the crash bar. It doesnt shake or move, pretty solid.

In terms of performance I started with a stock TMIC, then used the CX core with their kit until it got damaged, and finally swapped to a TR8. there is a noticeable difference in BAT temps. As stated above my BAT is stable all the way through a pull. The CX core I noticed on logs the BAT would begin to climb higher as it wasn't properly flowing. There was maybe a slight difference in spool time but mostly negligible. I also don't have heat soak issues as much. In the summer (Charleston, SC) it can get near 100 on a regular basis. My BAT at idle would climb to around 130-150 depending on the time spent at a light. It would drop back down but nowhere near as much as with the TR8 on it.

There are also differences in core quality. The TR8 has more fins, better welds. It is also a lot nicer looking in the engine bay to have more room above the engine.
 
rD370fH.jpg


Comparison of the TR8 and CX core
 
I would get some heat soak in the humid midwest summer that caused kr on my CST4 and ets tmic. Part of it may have been the stock cat and stock intake manifold which makes for a pretty poor flowing setup.

Never had any issues with the K04.

Post your results!
 
Mauro_Penguin said:
I went from a tr10, back to a TMIC (ETS core).

With FMIC and aftermarket crashbar... BAT's were about 30* maybe a bit more above ambient. ECT's were about 100* above ambient. They would both oscillate temps depending on speed and engine load.

With TMIC and OEM front end sealed extra tight... BAT's are 15* above ambient, and ECT's are 85-90* above ambient. Temp control is so stable its stupid.

This is all highway driving with ambient temperatures between 85-95* in Florida.

As far as turbo lag, lag was maybe 300rpms or so. The turbo lag was so small it's hard to tell, I'd have to dig up some old logs to verify. Throttle response was a different story. With a FMIC you would feel the turbo slowly reach its efficiency and then away you went. With a TMIC boost is a hair faster but it is much MUCH smoother.

As far as piping, I had the HTP under engine kit which is great quality. The only problem with it is the piping is always in the way. If you drain your catch can, change oil, do certain suspension work, or even anything with the turbo or exhaust, the fucking pipes are always in the way. A TMIC is always in the way of anything along the top of the engine, but the advantage is you only have 2 couplers to tighten. The FMIC piping had 6 couplers, and any one would leak at random times even with new tbolt clamps and pressurizing the system to verify boost load.

That's just my experience. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't waste my time or money with a FMIC whether you are on k04 or a big turbo.
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i know this thread is old and sorry to revive it but i
i need your advice here. I was reading through these lines that you comment back in 2020 about not wasting money on fmic, that you prefer tmic. im about to do cst4,cs cams and cs manifold within weeks from now and im debating whether to go cobb fmic or stay in my actual ets tmic setup. The reason of my debate is to what extent i will be experiencing turbo lag because i see thats what people report. As for me, here i normally don’t do long gears highway pulls,its more of light to light, 1st,2nd and 3rdgear so this being said im wondering if i should still stay ets tmic instead of cobb fmic to have better response in lower band and less lag. The reason why i decided to write to you is because i see you have had experience with different set ups and you can maybe give a smart advice here so i spent money wisely.
Also im debating whether i can ewg with cs mani due to the fact that of my aem strut tower brace bar clearance. Any advice would be gladly appreciated.
Thanks,
 
I think FMIC is the way to go especially if you're in an urban setting with a lot of sitting in traffic. The heat soak can be bad otherwise.

Plus it frees up room to work under the hood. Not that it is hard to take the TMIC off but that's just an extra step.
 
Hey @Speed777

By the sounds of it, I think a TMIC is still going to be your best best. However I say this with only the ETS or CPE cores in mind. The reason being is they have plates on them that seal the hood tight, which improves flow through the core instead of letting air leak around.

Daily driving, you will appreciate the slightly faster turbo and throttle response. Anyone that tries to say otherwise or tries to preach about heatsoak, may not realize how stupid fast heat soak goes away. Even if we play to the FB clowns, heatsoak will rob you of maybe 15tq at initial take off, for all of 20 seconds or less. So really it's a fucking joke.

If core size concerns you, look at the specs and compare size. It has been a while since I compared them, but IIRC I think the cobb tr6 is the same size or smaller than a good top mount (again only ETS or CPE). An upgrade would be AT LEAST a tr8 or bigger. At that point you may need to replace or modify your crashbar. Also I see you are in PR, FMIC shipping cost might be extra high for you.

Speaking of the crash bar, there is a LOT to be gained in cooling, just by sealing up the crash bar and front end. You don't need to be an engineer, just some foil tape, a flash light, and some corrugated plastic will do. Your BAT's and ECT's will thank you all around at any speed! You will have cooler BAT'S than some guys with bigger, more exotic, and more expensive FMIC's. Also you will have a TON more control of the front end handling at higher speeds. Win win.

Then comes ease of use... I found my under piping kit to be in the way on anything other than top end work around the head and HPFP. With a big FMIC kit, you really should boost leak test it anytime you take it off and on. Which may or may not involve removal of the bumper and other things. The TMIC is 2 couplers and 3 bolts, much easier to boost leak test and remove/replace. A cobb kit has nice quality piping, but you will need to remove the top hot pipe for some work.

Based on the mods you will be getting, why the hell are you worried about lag? LOL A CST4 will feel more lag than the factory k04, but it's a bigger turbo with more flow so way more power! With cams you should notice less lag and more throttle response. With an Exh Manifold, you will get faster turbo response, better throttle response from engine, and higher top end flow for more HP. You will probably see less "boost PSI", but your MAF is going to show you all the extra air flow (g/s) you gained.

You are on the right path! You have some decent mods in mind! You may notice the engine less angry at 2500rpm, but it will be easier to drive and you will have so much more power especially out close to redline, where the factory turbo loses power.

Lose the AEM tower bar, unless you are driving the mountain roads of El Yunque at 90+ mph, you won't notice a difference. Also lose the JBR throttle body and Int Manifold gaskets, they can potentially leak as they age. The AP gaskets are MUCH better.

Sorry for the long read, hope it helps.

Salud!
 
Mauro_Penguin said:
Hey @Speed777

By the sounds of it, I think a TMIC is still going to be your best best. However I say this with only the ETS or CPE cores in mind. The reason being is they have plates on them that seal the hood tight, which improves flow through the core instead of letting air leak around.

Daily driving, you will appreciate the slightly faster turbo and throttle response. Anyone that tries to say otherwise or tries to preach about heatsoak, may not realize how stupid fast heat soak goes away. Even if we play to the FB clowns, heatsoak will rob you of maybe 15tq at initial take off, for all of 20 seconds or less. So really it's a fucking joke.

If core size concerns you, look at the specs and compare size. It has been a while since I compared them, but IIRC I think the cobb tr6 is the same size or smaller than a good top mount (again only ETS or CPE). An upgrade would be AT LEAST a tr8 or bigger. At that point you may need to replace or modify your crashbar. Also I see you are in PR, FMIC shipping cost might be extra high for you.

Speaking of the crash bar, there is a LOT to be gained in cooling, just by sealing up the crash bar and front end. You don't need to be an engineer, just some foil tape, a flash light, and some corrugated plastic will do. Your BAT's and ECT's will thank you all around at any speed! You will have cooler BAT'S than some guys with bigger, more exotic, and more expensive FMIC's. Also you will have a TON more control of the front end handling at higher speeds. Win win.

Then comes ease of use... I found my under piping kit to be in the way on anything other than top end work around the head and HPFP. With a big FMIC kit, you really should boost leak test it anytime you take it off and on. Which may or may not involve removal of the bumper and other things. The TMIC is 2 couplers and 3 bolts, much easier to boost leak test and remove/replace. A cobb kit has nice quality piping, but you will need to remove the top hot pipe for some work.

Based on the mods you will be getting, why the hell are you worried about lag? LOL A CST4 will feel more lag than the factory k04, but it's a bigger turbo with more flow so way more power! With cams you should notice less lag and more throttle response. With an Exh Manifold, you will get faster turbo response, better throttle response from engine, and higher top end flow for more HP. You will probably see less "boost PSI", but your MAF is going to show you all the extra air flow (g/s) you gained.

You are on the right path! You have some decent mods in mind! You may notice the engine less angry at 2500rpm, but it will be easier to drive and you will have so much more power especially out close to redline, where the factory turbo loses power.

Lose the AEM tower bar, unless you are driving the mountain roads of El Yunque at 90+ mph, you won't notice a difference. Also lose the JBR throttle body and Int Manifold gaskets, they can potentially leak as they age. The AP gaskets are MUCH better.

Sorry for the long read, hope it helps.

Salud!
Click to expand...
Thank you my friend for such a great help write up! thumbs up for you, lol
Listen which are the ap gaskets you mentioned, point me in the right direction because i need to have everything set in place. To be honest i haven’t noticed any leaks from jbr gaskets but i know that i have to replace gaskets once i removed the throttle and intake manifold.

Also can you reach out to me in detail and explanation about this you mentioned?
“Speaking of the crash bar, there is a LOT to be gained in cooling, just by sealing up the crash bar and front end. You don't need to be an engineer, just some foil tape, a flash light, and some corrugated plastic will do. Your BAT's and ECT's will thank you all around at any speed! You will have cooler BAT'S than some guys with bigger, more exotic, and more expensive FMIC's. Also you will have a TON more control of the front end handling at higher speeds. Win win.”

i laughed so much when you mentioned “Lose the AEM tower bar, unless you are driving the mountain roads of El Yunque at 90+ mph,” looks like you have been to PR right? if you haven’t you should its great.
Let me ask you another question, do you happen to know if when using cobb dp and corksport manifold,i have to relocate oxygen sensor because of clearance issues?
Thanks for the help and let me know on all of my doubts.
 
I was born in Rio Piedras, but it's been 20 years since I last visited the island.

Here is one of the gaskets, link , it's a softer material that seals tighter than the hard PTFE material JBR uses. They make gaskets for the BPV and Intake manifold too.

As for sealing the front end, I talk a bit about it in my thread. It's been a long time since I updated it. Here is a link, it starts at post #7.

I have no experience with the corksport manifold, so I couldn't talk to you about fitment. I know the COBB downpipe has a couple of O2 bugs, so if anything you should be able to move your sensor to one of the other holes if you run into some kind of fitment issue.
 
Mauro_Penguin said:
I was born in Rio Piedras, but it's been 20 years since I last visited the island.

Here is one of the gaskets, link , it's a softer material that seals tighter than the hard PTFE material JBR uses. They make gaskets for the BPV and Intake manifold too.

As for sealing the front end, I talk a bit about it in my thread. It's been a long time since I updated it. Here is a link, it starts at post #7.

I have no experience with the corksport manifold, so I couldn't talk to you about fitment. I know the COBB downpipe has a couple of O2 bugs, so if anything you should be able to move your sensor to one of the other holes if you run into some kind of fitment issue.
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Hi there! i tried writing AP gaskets and customer service is horrible! first and last time i will be purchasing from them. I think next time i will be going with a different brand! customer service is everything no matter if you have a great product.
 
If you wrote jibberish like that post it's no wonder you didn't get a response.

Please state what happetbefore putting a vendor on blast
 
Easter Bunny said:
If you wrote jibberish like that post it's no wonder you didn't get a response.

Please state what happetbefore putting a vendor on blast
Click to expand...

no jibberish dude! if you state you will answer within 48 hours, you should comply simple as that! a simple order doubt which was my question. If you can’t comply because many things could happen then simple don’t mention it on the website because customer goes by what is stated. If you are going to be out of the business than simple, stated on the website.My question was a very simple question, no jibberish
 
Speed777 said:
no jibberish dude! if you state you will answer within 48 hours, you should comply simple as that! a simple order doubt which was my question. If you can’t comply because many things could happen then simple don’t mention it on the website because customer goes by what is stated. If you are going to be out of the business than simple, stated on the website.My question was a very simple question, no jibberish
Click to expand...
You still have not told us what your question was, I have had nothing but great customer service from Steve @ AP, he does have busy times in fact currently when you first go to the page it says shipping in 5-7 business days as he's trying to stay on top of manufacturing, I take this to mean that response times will also be slow. Further when I go to the contact us page I don't see anything about 48hr response. Also appreciate that it may not always happen even though he strives for that.

I'm going to end this discussion here, this is not the place to discuss vendor issues.
 
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