andale927's PTE 5558 Gen 2 Build (Built Engine)

[andale927]

So I added the catch can following Damond route 2, I measured my crankcase before and after.

Before: Sat at around 4" water column at hot idle, varied a bit during heavy throttle, under full boost hit 6".
After: Sat at 1" water columnt at hot idle, under full boost hit 2". I guess I have more blowby than the pcv valve can flow under vaccum.

So definite improvement with the catch can. That said, I still can't run the turbo restrictor-less. I was able to increase the size of the restrictor to .065" though without smoking. I wasn't able to run the .065" before. I might have to take another look at my turbo drain.

Anyways, I ended up spending most of today tuning boost by gear. IT FEELS AMAZING. I can hook in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd now at WOT and it legitimately feels faster because I have traction. Right now it is tuned to pretty much the limit of my Michelin PS4S. This never would have been possible with the BNR S4 I was running before, that wastegate had no flow capability and creeped like crazy.

Here is a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear boost all laid out on top of each other:



If you guys haven't set this up I highly recommend it. Way better and more controlled than attempting to feather the throttle, you can pretty much tune it to the very edge of traction. 3rd gear pulls so much harder than having all of the boost.

 

[andale927]

So..... There is definitely something seriously wrong with me. I'm sad to say that I will no longer be in the EFR7163 club. I went ahead and picked up the following:
-CP-E Exhaust Manifold with Precision Flange
-Precision 5558 Gen 2 (.83 a/r)
-Kozmic Downpipe for Precision
-Tial 44mm MV-R
-DTP Fabworks Dump Pipe

I really can't stand the drop off up top with the 7163 so I had to jump ship. Goal with the new setup is ~600whp with hopefully a minimal hit to spool. I was scheduled for a Dyno this Saturday, I guess I'll still do it to have a good before/after comparison.

 

[Enki]

RIP

 

[Mauro_Penguin]

How bad was this drop off, that is once you worked out all the wrinkles in the set up?

 

[andale927]

How bad was this drop off, that is once you worked out all the wrinkles in the set up?

By 6000 rpm I can only hold 26-28lbs. I've checked for exhaust leaks and boost leaks and also tried adding a ton of wastegate preload with no dice. I'm commanding 100 wgdc by 5500 rpm.

 

[alexwlwsn]

I'm very excited to see the before/after difference between turbos. I've always heard EFR was the best of the best when it came to spool/response but haven't seen a good EFR vs. PTE/GTX comparison that was convincing yet.

 

[andale927]

The only thing I dislike about the precision is that you can't get them water-cooled. But yeah I'm looking forward to a comparison as well haha. Dyno won't capture transient response, but if I have similar loading I can at least compare boost threshold.

 

[Sho]

@VashEXE boost also drops off big time past 6k on his 7163.

 

[JohnnyTightlips]

Also excited, thank you for spending all your money.

 

[VashEXE]

By 6000 rpm I can only hold 26-28lbs. I've checked for exhaust leaks and boost leaks and also tried adding a ton of wastegate preload with no dice. I'm commanding 100 wgdc by 5500 rpm.

I have the same drop off up top and to be honest with you this is really just related to the turbo sizing. If you check your air flow numbers I'll bet you find that you're flowing exactly what the turbo is rated for (60 lbs/min). The only info I could find on the 5558 shows that it's actually a 59 lbs/min turbo, but I have seen some of the vids of the 600hp STs with these, so I'm not sure if the Gen2 ones might have better flow numbers or something. The immediate response of the EFR is great, but if you're wanting more top end, something bigger is needed to not choke it out up top with the amount of air it's flowing. Just know that you will definitely be sacrificing some response for this added top end.

Not everything is about the boost numbers remember, but I get that it's not fun watching numbers go down on a graph. As long as your tq curve is nice and flat, I feel like it doesn't really matter what my boost numbers are. I'm pretty happy with where my car is at on the 7163, but everybody has different goals.

I'm interested to see the differences as well.

 

[Enki]

If this is the case (both turbos are 60 lbs-flow) then you likely won't make more on the new turbo unless you're overspinning the shit out of it, which will cost you in other ways.

 

[andale927]

I have the same drop off up top and to be honest with you this is really just related to the turbo sizing. If you check your air flow numbers I'll bet you find that you're flowing exactly what the turbo is rated for (60 lbs/min). The only info I could find on the 5558 shows that it's actually a 59 lbs/min turbo, but I have seen some of the vids of the 600hp STs with these, so I'm not sure if the Gen2 ones might have better flow numbers or something. The immediate response of the EFR is great, but if you're wanting more top end, something bigger is needed to not choke it out up top with the amount of air it's flowing. Just know that you will definitely be sacrificing some response for this added top end.

Not everything is about the boost numbers remember, but I get that it's not fun watching numbers go down on a graph. As long as your tq curve is nice and flat, I feel like it doesn't really matter what my boost numbers are. I'm pretty happy with where my car is at on the 7163, but everybody has different goals.

I'm interested to see the differences as well.

Yeah man, I don't disagree, the power/torque curve is what matters. Unfortunately my EFR can't seem to hold 28 PSI consistently, after a few back to back pulls I can't seem to hold more than 26 lbs. After spending all this money ~500whp just doesn't cut it for me. Don't get me wrong, the spool characteristics are awesome and I'm aware that I will lose some with the PTE.

Based on the wheel specs, the 5558 Gen 2 is somewhere in between the GTX3071r and the 76r which are supposedly rated for 650 and 750hp respectively.

I really don't like that Garret and PTE aren't up front with their compressor maps. Garrett never updated their compressor map for the Gen 2 turbos, but claim ~ 20% more flow. I did a decent amount of research and there are enough WRX guys making close to 650 AWHP on a Gen 2 3076r and ST guys making 600+ WHP on a 5558 to convince me to make the purchase. I'll give you guys an unbiased opinion and whatever data I collect when all is all said and done. I really like the feeling of a reverse tapered boost curve, and I can't really do that on the EFR without sacrificing peak power output. If I'm not satisfied, then onto the next setup lol.

 

[Enki]

Remember that dynos differ and can read high or low. Your vdyno above is probably reading aggressively low compared to a LOT of actual dynos out there.

As for the boost consistency, that could be down to your WGDC being maxed or comps not being aggressive enough to overcome boost temps.

I feel like it might be worth mentioning that boost doesn't equal flow. Are your loads the same from run to run? If not, you should load tune and then the boost won't matter (unless your WGDC is pegged and you're out of flow).

 

[andale927]

Remember that dynos differ and can read high or low. Your vdyno above is probably reading aggressively low compared to a LOT of actual dynos out there.

As for the boost consistency, that could be down to your WGDC being maxed or comps not being aggressive enough to overcome boost temps.

I feel like it might be worth mentioning that boost doesn't equal flow. Are your loads the same from run to run? If not, you should load tune and then the boost won't matter (unless your WGDC is pegged and you're out of flow).

Yeah I understand, I can see that I am flowing approximately the same amount of air based on MAF V from 5000 rpm to 7k rpm. My load is definitely not as high on the 26 PSI runs. My WGDC is maxed out, I do think I might be able to hold a bit more boost if I switch to a Turbosmart WG and add some spring pressure.

 

[Enki]

Possibly, though you likely need more exhaust flow. The FR downpipe is only 2.85" ID and has a really bad 90 downturn that isn't all that smooth. Yours is custom, correct? What size is your full turboback?

 

[andale927]

Possibly, though you likely need more exhaust flow. The FR downpipe is only 2.85" ID and has a really bad 90 downturn that isn't all that smooth. Yours is custom, correct? What size is your full turboback?

The turboback is 3" all the way back other than the downpipe which actually is the full race DP. I think the exhaust back pressure in the manifold is also contributing to pushing the wastegate open as well, although I don't think that would be affected by the downpipe.

 

[Enki]

No but it does affect top end flow. The T25 flange isn't so small that it would be that bad of a restriction, especially with tuned manifold runners, .85 AR and a larger than stock sized flange area. What's the current record for stock flange power? Like 600?

 

[VashEXE]

Same G/S at those RPMs sounds like your Split Second controller is spraying at that time. I'm assuming you tuned that yourself too? I know at a certain point, I cut over to a flat G/S number on my ATR and cut over to the split second controller to dial in my fuel trims up top, so that would explain that.

 

[andale927]

No but it does affect top end flow. The T25 flange isn't so small that it would be that bad of a restriction, especially with tuned manifold runners, .85 AR and a larger than stock sized flange area. What's the current record for stock flange power? Like 600?

True, I think the CST6 made 630whp on their CS stock flange cast exhaust manifold. I think I'll actually hook up my arduino this weekend to measure the turbo shaft speed, I am curious if I am actually hitting the edge of the compressor map.

 

[VashEXE]

Same G/S at those RPMs sounds like your Split Second controller is spraying at that time. I'm assuming you tuned that yourself too? I know at a certain point, I cut over to a flat G/S number on my ATR and cut over to the split second controller to dial in my fuel trims up top, so that would explain that.

Disregard this. I didn't read your post correctly. Same MAFV from 5-7k is weird. Even with how my system cuts over to the SS controller it shows the correct MAF V. Air flow in g/s is what is locked in after a certain point.