Annnnd...traction (or lack thereof). How do we improve it?

VoodooJef

VoodooJef

My friends call me Captain Zen
Greenie N00B Member
Another "step child" of a discussion. We all have the same issue with traction once we get the torque up to even mild levels. It`s a thing, in particular it`s straight line traction that we suffer with. We don`t have rear suspension to bolt traction bars to, and at a glance it seems all we can really do is slap a set of sticky tires on there and hope for the best.

...or is it?

No, our FWD drive cars are not best suited for drag racing. Putting racing aside, what about just wanting to go haul ass once in a while when no one is looking? What are things we can do to improve the straight line traction of this potentially very torque-y beast? Is it really up to the tires? Just how custom can we get with boost ramps in 1st and 2nd gear?

Discuss...
 
Motor mounts, tires and your tune are the biggest factors. Even if you have high torque it can still be manageable with the right tune.
 
Good engine mounts, not shitty inserts.

Suspension work to reduce squat on take off will help a lot.

Wider and stickier tires.

You could upgrade the diff to a more aggressive LSD.

Most importantly, driver mod.
 
Hahaha....while I`m no Sebastien Loeb, 27 years behind the wheel and learning how to drive in a RWD vehicle in Vermont of all places set up decent ground work for my ability to get a car to go where I want it. LOL.

Most of the things brought up are going to help all things related to moving the car, but as significant as it can be, I had totally forgotten about the diff. I have yet to intentionally leave rubber on the pavement so I don`t have burnout marks to look at and it just didn`t cross my mind. I vaguely remember reading that the Speed 3 had a decent OEM diff, hence why I didn`t give it much thought. I`ll have the tranny out in a few days, might look into upgrading the LSD while I`m in there.
 
as mentioned before suspension and mounts are a huge component but also being smooth with the throttle and clutch engagement will yield a lot of traction improvements. Finally you can also reduce the air pressure in your front tires to gain a bigger contact patch. For cheap anti-squat I recommend airlift airbags inside the rear springs.
 
You are talking about traction when launching a car from a stop right? In that case, motor mounts, soft compound tires with taller/softer sidewalls (drop to 17s or 16s), something to stiffen up the rear suspension (as previously suggested, airbags can work here). Also, if purely going in a straight line, I'm not sure how the LSD would help unless one tire is on a slippery surface compared to the other.
 
Finch204 said:
You are talking about traction when launching a car from a stop right? In that case, motor mounts, soft compound tires with taller/softer sidewalls (drop to 17s or 16s), something to stiffen up the rear suspension (as previously suggested, airbags can work here). Also, if purely going in a straight line, I'm not sure how the LSD would help unless one tire is on a slippery surface compared to the other.
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Really just an open discussion on traction in general, but straight line traction is usually the bigger issue. An LSD helps immensely with launching from a stop. You get engine torque applied to both drive wheels [more or less] evenly, vs just one. Get in any open diff vehicle, FWD or RWD, and floor it. It`ll smoke the one drive wheel while the other hardly turns. LSD applies power to the 2nd drive wheel so both sides are working to propel the car. Open diffs tend to be quieter and certainly cheaper to manufacture, and are less likely to wash out throttling out of a turn. Look at many early muscle cars or even pre-8.8" rear end V8 Mustang. When they burn out only one wheel (typically the right rear) will have power applied to it.

Of course driver elegance with the throttle and clutch can make or break a car`s ability to launch, but I`ve driven cars you could literally stage up, rev to 5K, dump the clutch and away you go, running a sub 1.6 60 foot time. That`s getting into drag race specific performance and not necessarily what I`m even looking for. Just wanted to spark a conversation about traction solutions some of us have used.
 
VoodooJef said:
Really just an open discussion on traction in general, but straight line traction is usually the bigger issue. An LSD helps immensely with launching from a stop. You get engine torque applied to both drive wheels [more or less] evenly, vs just one. Get in any open diff vehicle, FWD or RWD, and floor it. It`ll smoke the one drive wheel while the other hardly turns. LSD applies power to the 2nd drive wheel so both sides are working to propel the car. Open diffs tend to be quieter and certainly cheaper to manufacture, and are less likely to wash out throttling out of a turn. Look at many early muscle cars or even pre-8.8" rear end V8 Mustang. When they burn out only one wheel (typically the right rear) will have power applied to it.

Of course driver elegance with the throttle and clutch can make or break a car`s ability to launch, but I`ve driven cars you could literally stage up, rev to 5K, dump the clutch and away you go, running a sub 1.6 60 foot time. That`s getting into drag race specific performance and not necessarily what I`m even looking for. Just wanted to spark a conversation about traction solutions some of us have used.
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Taller and wider tires increase your contact patch, too. Some people think of only wider, but taller lengthens the contact patch. Of course, it also lengthens your gearing too, which can help even further. This is especially helpful for the big power guys.

But ultimately, the tires you run themselves are the best thing. I love my Micheling PSSes for the street for this. RS3s grip great too, but last 1/3 to 1/2 as long. Then of course we have drag-wheels that aren't even street-legal.
 
Proper suspension, alignment, tires, mounts. I can hook 3rd gear no problem on 255/40/17 hankook rs3 as long as it's over 50* out on a 500 whp tune.
 
Sho said:
Proper suspension, alignment, tires, mounts. I can hook 3rd gear no problem on 255/40/17 hankook rs3 as long as it's over 50* out on a 500 whp tune.
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One of the benefits of 3rd is that you generally don't build as much total boost, and it doesn't build as quickly, due to less load on the powertrain with 3rd's gearing. You can see this phenomenon very clearly if you compare back-to-back 3rd and 4th gear logs. The boost curves will be noticeably different, assuming you WOT @ the same RPM. This aspect of how our cars act helps grip in 3rd naturally. Usually, if you break loose, it'd near the top of 3rd (for me, anyways). It may be different with your turbo.
 
Redline said:
One of the benefits of 3rd is that you generally don't build as much total boost, and it doesn't build as quickly, due to less load on the powertrain with 3rd's gearing. You can see this phenomenon very clearly if you compare back-to-back 3rd and 4th gear logs. This aspect of how our cars act helps grip in 3rd naturally. Usually, if you break loose, it'd near the top of 3rd (for me, anyways). It may be different with your turbo.
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My tune is setup for 3rd and 4th to see the same boost curve. Only 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th are neutered
 
Sho said:
My tune is setup for 3rd, 4th and 5th to see the same boost curve. Only 1st and 2nd is neutered
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Ahhh, so Mark adjusted everything so that you see the same curves, onset, ramp-up speed, etc? Must be nice :D
Then again, with your turbo, I think it's necessary. With my turbo, I think it's setup to get into boost faster, if it can, past a certain RPM. My 3rd boost curve is a good deal different than my 4th. And with my setup, my 3rd curve isn't capable of matching my 4th. I suppose we could neuter 4th to match 3rd, but there'd be no point in terms of performance for my setup.
 
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I have no real traction issues in 3rd with my 245 RS-3s as sho mentioned though, assuming its above 50 degrees. I dont believe that my 3rd is any different than my 4th gear. 450ish whp.

2/3 motor mounts, a under brace and the biggest help I think was the whiteline ALK. Proper tire and suspension make a big difference. If you want a quick spooling car and traction, its possible, just have to have the right support parts.
 
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3rd isn`t nearly as bad now that I`ve got decent tires. I can feather it just a tad and keep the tires gripping. They`ll do just fine until the NT05`s go on for summer. These H&R springs are WAY softer than I was expecting, too, so it squats pretty hard....also being fixed this week.
 
VoodooJef said:
3rd isn`t nearly as bad now that I`ve got decent tires. I can feather it just a tad and keep the tires gripping. They`ll do just fine until the NT05`s go on for summer. These H&R springs are WAY softer than I was expecting, too, so it squats pretty hard....also being fixed this week.
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I hear ya. Even the Swifts, which IIRC are the stiffest of all the performance springs, are a linear 252 lbs/in. My current setup is 375F/430R. MUCH more controlled, especially at high speeds (highway, for instance, but also 100+).

For me, the Michelin PSSes (245s) hold all the way through 3rd with my foot planted (@390/385), so long as the surface is good. Lower-grip roads can introduce some spin.
 
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