Building for the road course...again

[Easter Bunny]

The goal is to go faster so work from the new setup to make it feel like you want dont work back towards the old setup. If you had the front at a good height then raise the rear. You can be too low and outside of the optimal range for the suspension

 

[gotovato]

The goal is to go faster so work from the new setup to make it feel like you want dont work back towards the old setup. If you had the front at a good height then raise the rear. You can be too low and outside of the optimal range for the suspension

Yea so part of my problem is the new springs gaining me a half inch of ride height up front.


To fix that, either gotta lower the front by dropping the spring perch(fucks up your compression travel) or need to shorten the shock length which fucks the bump stop height.

I had maybe a half inch to spare on the bump height wise so I shortened the shock length.

The front of the car is about a quarter inch lower than the rear which is nice.

This is where we’re at now. I will test and if it’s good, then maybe I just want a 1” taller rear spring so I can raise the rear more if I want more turn. It’s another tuning tool like adjusting the rear sway bar. This way I also wouldn’t need to mess with the front anymore.

Few ways to attack this I guess. I have an idea in my head how I want it and if I’m right, that means longer rear spring, raise the rear, raise the front a little more, and everything be perfect. I do not want to go to a softer front spring if I can avoid it. I am getting advice for the suspension engineer though but I haven’t ran my more rear height idea past him yet.


Someone on the k20 forum told me it’ll take the season the dial the suspension in. He was right for sure.



Another variable, new tire. It shouldn’t be a huge gain over my nankangs in just raw laptime. That said, they are much faster than everything else apparently.

That outer shoulder means business

 

[Mauro_Penguin]

Your front end being so high really changed your front roll center. Take into account the added spring rate, and your description of the handling makes perfect sense.

Thats why lowering it probably felt better.

I personally wouldn't change spring rate. Don't be nervous about your latest change when you haven't optimized it.

Adjust your roll center as needed.

Or with the new spring rates and higher roll center, you could try reducing some of the caster you have in the front end. That might help loosen up the steering wheel a bit.

There are plenty of ways to dial in a car, you know this.

You've made it this far, past several obstacles, and now have been lots of love and support. Don't turn into a pussy now.

Edit: You dont need a whole season to dial in a car. A weekend in an empty parking lot with a Pyro gun, note pad and pen, and you should get it pretty close to good.

 

[Easter Bunny]

Your idea is how I would proceed also. I agree with Derrick and penguin that the alignment will probably unlock a lot also.

Don't underestimate the impact of different tires

 

[Crazycanadian]

A thought... If you went softer with the front spring, could you go with a stiffer front bar to combat the body roll? This would let you get more weight transfer on to the front.

How does the tire wear look? Can you play with camber.

 

[gotovato]

A thought... If you went softer with the front spring, could you go with a stiffer front bar to combat the body roll? This would let you get more weight transfer on to the front.

How does the tire wear look? Can you play with camber.

Tire wear. 5 events. One of them kinda wet. This is with 3 days on the old front springs and 2 on the new. I swap the left and right tires around to even wear

You've made it this far, past several obstacles, and now have been lots of love and support. Don't turn into a pussy now.

100%. Sometimes I wanna quit for sure. It’s such a fight some days but I must say when the cars good…fuck. It’s good. Makes it all worth it. The support has been fantastic too that is for sure.

I’m going to go test next week Wednesday. We’ll see how the new lower front end works. We’ll go from there.

I run a lot of caster since it helps with camber gain at turn in. Let’s me run less static camber. A lot of dudes run a ton more camber than me but alot of them are stuck around 5-6* of caster. I gain some braking and corner exit traction

I will probably run the same tires again on Wednesday. I’m not gonna be doing a ton of laps and these still have enough grip. I’ll save the new tires for when I think I have the car figured out.

Your idea is how I would proceed also.

I think it seems reasonable. There’s a gridlife GLTC guy, Eric Kutil. Races a civic that’s way too dialed in. We’re talking pro stuff. Adjustable everything. He uses the rear ride height to adjust the cars attitude. More turn or less turn just buy raising or lowering the rear a few mm. He says it’s more fine tuning vs the sway bar, then you also have the sway bar as well. A mm or two of rake makes a pretty noticeable difference. I can say that myself for sure

You can also raise or lower just one side of the rear. Change the cross weight on the opposite corner. That’s cool for tuning to specific tracks. Can give the car some wedge.

I’m at max rear ride height so I need a 1” taller rear spring. Whatever.


I dropped the car off tonight at the shop for front end alignment and corner balance again. Trying to give myself a good shot here.


The car lost its turn in grip. Even while trail braking. It just doesn’t load up like it did. Can’t get it to turn in. Before, it was spicy as hell at turn in. Trying to get back there so I can dial it in or out as needed

 

[Crazycanadian]

It sounds like you were getting more weight transfer on the front with the sagged out front springs.


There's no data to see in the front tires since they have been on both setups.. We can't see any differences.

 

[Easter Bunny]

Unless you are getting a sweet deal you should really learn how to do your own alignments

 

[gotovato]

It sounds like you were getting more weight transfer on the front with the sagged out front springs.


There's no data to see in the front tires since they have been on both setups.. We can't see any differences.

This. The weight transfer was huge with the old springs. I could really feel the front end roll while the rear end stayed completely flat. it was an interesting feeling but the front end was biting hard. Felt great under braking, turn in, trail braking. With the new springs i lost that dig, even on the brakes the car doesn't care. it doesnt even brake as well now either

As for the tires, i gotta swap them left to right unfortunately. there's a really nice ~95kph carousel that just murders the front left. if i were to keep the tires on the same side that front left would be throw away after maybe 2-3 events

Unless you are getting a sweet deal you should really learn how to do your own alignments

I dont pay full beans for my multiple yearly alignments. For the front end which is what we usually mess with, ~125$, if its gotta go on the scales, around 200-250

when the weights are good and i stop messing with ride height its just camber and toe checks up front. usually before any time attack event. Would hate to roll up with a messed up alignment and my camber does shift sometimes

 

[Crazycanadian]

I was curious to see if there was a difference in wear between the old setup and the new setup. Since you've run on the same tires back to back there's nothing to see in wear differences. All though it was a good comparison with lap times. Rotating the tires left to right still gives you good wear data.

Something you could try at your next event. Disconnect the front sway bar. Since it's not only weight transfer during braking that you've possibly lost, you's lost some of that weight transfer during turn in. This would be easy to test between runs.

 

[gotovato]

Sitting in the car right now while it’s on the scales. Good time to reply lol


So I asked the fortune auto engineer since I had the thought,

Why softer springs when I can just delete my front sway bar?

His reply,
“I would advise going with softer springs and keeping the bar, that will improve bump compliance with a less noticeable impact on roll stiffness”


I guess that makes some sense

 

[gotovato]

Hoping for a good weekend this week.

Friday i am planning to be at the track for testing. Have the day off and car is ready to go.

If all goes well Friday, i will compete in some time attack on Sunday.

This leaves saturday in the middle to get sticker tires mounted and make any setup changes if needed(not that there is much more to setup here. Either the car turns or im outta luck).

Heres hoping for a good test day friday, then a good race sunday.

This is a power track and the 2 long straights kill me but ill do my best. Just itching to get back out in competition.

Plan is to camp at the track saturday night. There is an open lapping event so im sure there will be some guys getting in some seat time.


Looking at the registrations for sunday, so far my class is 3 BRZs, with one of them being way too fast(cheating). Thatll be fun...lol
the next class up from me is empty right now. No cars. My buddy will be entering his k24 swapped FRS in the class above me. He'll be in there all alone

I told him im probably gonna register 1 class up so i can be with him.

We run the same tire, same size even. both on brand new re71rz
he makes 190whp 178wtq
i make 193whp 145wtq

weight would be similar, i might be 100lbs or so lighter

I think this might be more fun lol. touge style 1 v 1

 

[gotovato]

Little P2 action today. Tried to enter into my frs buddies class and they wouldn’t let me. Ah well

 

[Enki]

Assuming you got second, based on looks alone (MS3 is a chubby neckbeard kind of car)

 

[Easter Bunny]

Was first place the cheating frs

 

[gotovato]

Was first place the cheating frs

It was yup. I went faster than him in straight up raw time but the stupid pax system fucked me and he gets first place cause he’s got less pips than me. Annoying



The car was kinda shit still anyways. New tires helped a bunch but seemed more like a bandaid. The car still ain’t right

 

[gotovato]

Engine has been picked up from the machine shop. Assembly began yesterday on the short block and ill finish it this weekend. Pending a head gasket and few other parts from the dealer before i can assemble the long block. thatll be next week.

then...its swap time.

 

[gotovato]

Well hit a snag on engine assembly.

Rod bearings appear to be too tight. This is after sourcing some difficult to find bearings.

Machine shop measured with the paper work listed 55ftlbs or whatever it is and not the 75ftlbs I ended up at with the rod bolt stretch gauge(70-80ftlbs is common confirmed by other dudes on the k20 forum and ARP themselves. These are NO JOKE bolts).


^this, plus using inside micrometers sucks. I can see the indent left by it. I’m sure that’s 2 tenths right there.

Machine shop told me 0.0015
I got 0.001

I had a set of standard bearings in the garage. Those got me to 0.0013. This is the min spec from Honda.

I will need the STDX extra clearance bearings same like my last engine needed.

They appear to be out of stock everywhere so that sucks. Hopefully someone has those on a shelf somewhere or else I’m in trouble

 

[gotovato]

Went time attacking yesterday. Reverse layout on a track I’ve done a bunch of times before in the regular config.


Nobodies done reverse though. It was a game of learning the track asap that’s for sure.

Lost to an mk8 golf R and if you know anything about those cars they are dumb fast. With a tune they actually get stupid.

3rd place was an Integra with a built engine. 220whp from what I could on his social medias.


Did what I could

 

[Easter Bunny]

how in the hell are you in the same class as a Golf R?

the empty license plate frame on the front is killing me though. it makes it look like you pulled into the wrong parking lot went full send and ended up 2nd.