Cranks, fires then dies after rebuild

J

Jaharpe

Silver Member
Greenie N00B Member
Greenie Member
Hi Mazda Pros!

Year/Make/Model: 2009 Mazdaspeed3
Mileage: 171000
Location: Indiana
Concern: cranks, briefly fires then dies
DTC's: none
Modifications: see below
ECU/Tuning Software: stock
Tuner: n/a
Is the concern intermittent? No
Can you duplicate the concern? Yes
Recent Repairs: see below. :)



Taking a break from forum searching and working through diagnostics to seek help from the mazdapros!

Car starts briefly then dies after engine rebuild.

History: Burned valve on #2 lead to pulling and disassembling the engine with intent of beefing up the bottom end, then upgrading turbo and intake side later.

Work done:
Cylinder head decked, new valve seals, 3 new inconel valves, stock cams, valves adjusted to spec, timing set using kit from corksport (plate and pins), stock cams (new vvt), rotating assembly balanced and checked by machine shop
New: manley rods, pistons (had to go up to 87.75mm) and rings (gap set my machine shop), upgraded rod bearings, main bearings, oil pump, chain and gears, timing chain, tensioner, etc (edgeauto stage 3 rebuild kit), cometic timing cover gasket, water pump, damon pcv plate, pcv valve, thermostat, hps silicone coolant hose kit, new clutch, corksport fuel pump internals and rebuild, arp crank and cam bolts, arp head and crank studs, balance shafte delete and baffle, Turbo (from rockauto), fuel injectors, crank sensor set while at cyl 1 tdc to 20th tooth.

Had an issue with the spill valve. While attempting to rebuild it, would not compress enough to get the keepers out to clean and replace the oring. Ordered a new Hitachi from Rockauto (for my peace of mind). Will be here Wednesday 23rd.

No other aftermarket equipment (yet)!

After rebuild, fires then dies.
Will not stay running even if I try to give it throttle.
No codes
Verified spark
Verified all electrical connections connected and secured.
Fuel pressure during run attempt: see attached data
Rechecked all potential intake leak connections, none noted.
Have disconnected maf and attempted to start - no change
Have checked the grounds and hpfp assembly.
Camshaft position sensor sit flush with valve cover (cover is not painted)
Checked the fuses - none blown
In tank pump primes each time, like it is only firing enough to consume that amount. Maybe?
I've got a video and several attachments. I'm open to any direction!
 

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Would be much easier with a real log vs graphs...Doubt you're getting to 1200 RPM if it behaves like the video every time.
Please define "spill valve" in relation to the HPFP.
Shouldn't need to "compress" anything, and the spill valve doesn't need to be completely broken down to be cleaned.
1400 PSI at the rail should start no issue, unless the rail sensor isn't working.
Not sure on MAF G/S flow rate for cold start or low idle, but seems about right...Could be high or low though.

Need more info.
 
Is the fuel pump resistor plugged in? I forgot to connect mine after one of my engine replacements and it would start and almost immediately die. I still don't know why, but once I connected it, it ran fine.
 
Hey All! Just got the notifications for this. I'm working on a better interface for logging.

The terminology maybe wrong for the hpfp. The dump valve? Using the Corksport install instructions, you flip it upside down (connector side) and use a 9mm socket to press the valve body down to remove the keepers. It's to replace that inner oring.

I have taken everything back out to look at the connections on the intake side. Verifying no large vacuum leaks. I unplugged and plugged back in the resistor to check the pins.

I'm hesitating buying the acces port, foolish I know. I'm going to out my order into cobb after I finish this post. Then I get more data and get some loggers going.

Still working on it. I'm getting fuel to the cylinders now. I'm getting around 60 psi while testing the fuel pressure from the tank. It's been sitting in my garage for 8 months. I'm draing the tank and going to put fresh fuel in before more trouble shooting.

Thank you
 
Yeah the spill valve. You should pretty much never have to do this, as the only things you need to worry about are the needle (backed by the spring) and the valve body (the part you pry off to get at the needle)....Though that's only for the spill valve. The button and spring/keeper that sit inside the pump are super important as well.

If you have an ODB2 reader, you can use Torque as well, but there are custom PIDs you'd need to buy for shit like fuel rail pressure, etc. Pretty sure it's just a couple bucks and once per account though.
 
Thank you!

I do have torque pro but had issues connecting. Finally got it to connect and of course I let the battery run down too much lol. So on the charger. Will report back tomorrow.
 
Enki said:
Yeah the spill valve. You should pretty much never have to do this, as the only things you need to worry about are the needle (backed by the spring) and the valve body (the part you pry off to get at the needle)....Though that's only for the spill valve. The button and spring/keeper that sit inside the pump are super important as well.

If you have an ODB2 reader, you can use Torque as well, but there are custom PIDs you'd need to buy for shit like fuel rail pressure, etc. Pretty sure it's just a couple bucks and once per account though.
Click to expand...
Ok. Battery fully charged and tested! Fresh 93 octane fuel in the tank.
While I was learning how to use torque, the engine fired and went to ~2k rpm for ~3 seconds (cold idle due to it being 45 this morning?). The engine sounded fine, no mechanical noises or stumbles until it shut off again. So no data grab from that one.

I was able to log a couple of attempts to start using torque and have uploaded the cvs file. What parameters should I also capture? The ones I chose: Engine coolant temp, rpm, fuel rail pressure, fuel trims, intake air temp, intake manifold pressure, mass airflow rate, relative throttle position, timing advance, turbo boost and batt voltage. Looking at data is kind of new to me and I do not have a good baseline of the car to know what seems off. Thank you all once again for your help!
 

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Log these on another cold start attempt:
RPM, AFR, accel pedal position, throttle position, fuel rail pressure, ignition timing, MAF voltage and boost pressure or MAP, whichever shows up. Might have to start the log before starting the engine...Also, log ONLY the above parameters for highest resolution.

As a quick test, you could unplug the MAF and see if it starts then. No need to log this one though.
 
I will head back to the garage momentarily

Engine bay photos!
 

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I could not find a few of the parameters in torque pro: ignition timing, MAF voltage.
Will the forscan software or the access port show those? I may just need to wait to provide that.

Two logs attached, the first, forgot to add engine rpm. Both runs the engine fired and went to >1500 rpm for a few seconds and then died.
 

Attachments

For the cold start log, drop accel pedal position (both of them) and the intake mani pressure (retain boost pressure). Those appear to be fine.

Did you try to start the car with the MAF unplugged? This test does not need to be logged.
 
Also, with the car off and key out of ignition, the immobilizer light (key light, iirc) should be flashing every few seconds in the cluster. Is it doing this? Does it go on or stay off when starting the car?
 
Forgot to add: Yes, I did attempt an unplugged MAF start. It did not start :(
 
The immobilizer light does flash every few seconds with the key off and does go out when starting.
 
Dunno then man, sounds like shits haunted. Looks like you have air and spark and fuel, but the only things I can think of that would allow a few seconds of running on a cold start and then not for a while again after would be O2 sensors and MAF, as the O2 sensor needs to warm up before it works, and you just did the MAF unplugged test with no change (which the O2 should be able to compensate for).

I didn't see any (measured) O2 data in the log, so maybe it got unplugged or something? You'd think there would be a code for that though.
 
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