Cylinder 3 misfire & Awful Sound After

[Benny71]

Greetings,
So I have had this issue once about 6 mos. ago with a bad misfire in cylinder 3. Tore everything down pulled the injectors as I suspected there was a leak and there was. Replaced the injectors with an extra set I had laying around, installed corksport injector seals, installed new plugs and it seemed the problem was solved engine was running great. Compression was 150, 150, 130, 150 at that time. Now that it seems to be more of an internal issue I am reaching the limits of my knowledge as to what this might be. I pulled the spark plug in cylinder 3 and it appears the piston came into contact with it smashed it onto the electrode. Now when I start the car it makes an intermittent rattling noise that makes me cringe. Below is a picture of the spark plug and a short video of the motor sound. Hoping that some of the genius knowledge on this forum has will be able to point me in the right direction. I'm feeling that a rebuild may be necessary as i'm at 248k miles, but we shall see. Thanks in advance for any input you guys may have.

 

[The_big_dill]

If your piston could reach you plugs, it would also reach your head. The bent plug tip is far more likely due to something going through your engine, like a bolt or debris.

Does the rattling get worse if you increase RPM?

Did you replace the plug? Did you inspect inside the cylinders?

 

[Duey1083]

That would be a bit odd for a piston to contact the electrode on your spark plug. It really doesnt seem like it could be possible.

Compression definitely seems a bit low in that cylinder.

How does the ceramic portion on the spark plugs look for all your plugs. Some people were having issues with cracks developing in theirs.

It also looks like your plugs are fouled with carbon or oil. Are you burning anything? I have no idea what that rattle could be...timing chain maybe?

@Awafrican, calling you in here.

EDIT: nice work with the car keeping it until 248,000 miles...that's incredible!

 

[Benny71]

If your piston could reach you plugs, it would also reach your head. The bent plug tip is far more likely due to something going through your engine, like a bolt or debris.

Does the rattling get worse if you increase RPM?

Did you replace the plug? Did you inspect inside the cylinders?

Replaced the plug. I'm going to borrow a boroscope from a friend to look inside. I did not think it was wise to increase the rpm from idle considering the current situation.

That would be a bit odd for a piston to contact the electrode on your spark plug. It really doesnt seem like it could be possible.

Compression definitely seems a bit low in that cylinder.

How does the ceramic portion on the spark plugs look for all your plugs. Some people were having issues with cracks developing in theirs.

It also looks like your plugs are fouled with carbon or oil. Are you burning anything? I have no idea what that rattle could be...timing chain maybe?

@Awafrican, calling you in here.

EDIT: nice work with the car keeping it until 248,000 miles...that's incredible!

Ceramic is fine on the spark plug. The sound is definitely coming from cylinder 3, I was recording from the drivers side. Car does not seem to be burning any more oil than normal, although the oil on the #3 plug makes me think there could be an issue with the ring lands on that piston.

 

[The_big_dill]

Replaced the plug. I'm going to borrow a boroscope from a friend to look inside. I did not think it was wise to increase the rpm from idle considering the current situation.

I am wondering if during your injector replacement operation, there was debris that fell into the cylinder?

For reference, in the Protege, there was a TSB for the copper screws holding the VTCS flaps on getting into the engine. This often resulted in bent electrode tips.

Considering your mileage, it could be a number of things resulting in that rattling, including your high pressure pump. Did this noise only appear after you did your injectors?

I understand your concern with raising RPM and you should decide for yourself what the action plan is. I recommended it because it may help you isolate the problem.

 

[Benny71]

I am wondering if during your injector replacement operation, there was debris that fell into the cylinder?

For reference, in the Protege, there was a TSB for the copper screws holding the VTCS flaps on getting into the engine. This often resulted in bent electrode tips.

Considering your mileage, it could be a number of things resulting in that rattling, including your high pressure pump. Did this noise only appear after you did your injectors?

I understand your concern with raising RPM and you should decide for yourself what the action plan is. I recommended it because it may help you isolate the problem.

I'm pretty sure that nothing got in the injector hole when replacing as they were taped off right after pulling the injectors. It does appear that something may have been in or is in the cylinder because the tip of the plug looks a little beat up. HPFP is operating normally. The sound was definitely coming from inside. Crazy thing is up until yesterday the motor was running very well. This occurred right after i was at a stop, gave it a little juice in 1st, probably only up to 4500, shifted into 2nd and that's when the harsh misfires started.

 

[The_big_dill]

Ceramic is fine on the spark plug. The sound is definitely coming from cylinder 3, I was recording from the drivers side. Car does not seem to be burning any more oil than normal, although the oil on the #3 plug makes me think there could be an issue with the ring lands on that piston.

A leak down test will help you identify a damaged ringland.

I'm pretty sure that nothing got in the injector hole when replacing as they were taped off right after pulling the injectors. It does appear that something may have been in or is in the cylinder because the tip of the plug looks a little beat up. HPFP is operating normally. The sound was definitely coming from inside. Crazy thing is up until yesterday the motor was running very well. This occurred right after i was at a stop, gave it a little juice in 1st, probably only up to 4500, shifted into 2nd and that's when the harsh misfires started.

Did you monitor your engine logs after injector replacement?

Do a leakdown test on the engine. I expect leakage in cyl 3.

 

[Duey1083]

Ceramic is fine on the spark plug. The sound is definitely coming from cylinder 3, I was recording from the drivers side. Car does not seem to be burning any more oil than normal, although the oil on the #3 plug makes me think there could be an issue with the ring lands on that piston.

I was wondering about ring lands too, but I'm just not knowledgeable enough to say one way or another.

Do you know anyone that can do a boroscope?

 

[Awafrican]

Leak down test and scope through that plug hole for sure, seems like that cyclinder is done ringland can certainly cause low compression but the piston tapping the spark plug makes me think it has separated from the crank on some sort of fashion or yes foreign object in there.

 

[Benny71]

I was wondering about ring lands too, but I'm just not knowledgeable enough to say one way or another.

Do you know anyone that can do a boroscope?

I've got a friend who has one so that's the next step.

 

[Benny71]

Leak down test and scope through that plug hole for sure, seems like that cyclinder is done ringland can certainly cause low compression but the piston tapping the spark plug makes me think it has separated from the crank on some sort of fashion or yes foreign object in there.

I'm definitely a little perplexed on how that could happen to the spark plug as well. Boroscope & leak down is the next step. We'll see what happens.

 

[Duey1083]

@Benny71, it sucks to see, but you have to have one of the highest mileage engines I've ever seen. You did good!

How long have you had the car? Now that I think of it, you may have responded to my other thread, How Many Miles...or whatever I called it.

 

[Benny71]

@Benny71, it sucks to see, but you have to have one of the highest mileage engines I've ever seen. You did good!

How long have you had the car? Now that I think of it, you may have responded to my other thread, How Many Miles...or whatever I called it.

I have owned the car since 2012, bought it with 92k miles on it. I'm the 3rd owner.

 

[Benny71]

Sooooo. Looked inside the cylinders with the boroscope and found some awful little bits, see picture below. These were on top of the piston in #1 & #3 as well as on top of the intake valves. Compression was shit 125, 60, 50, 150. I’m tearing it down, got the timing timing cover off, gonna pull the cams out tomorrow then pull the head to really see how fucked the situation is. I’ll update the progress once I find out more. Thanks for everyone’s input so far.

 

[Duey1083]

Ah man...that really sucks to see.

I'm trying to figure out how that ended up on top of your intake valves though. Have you checked your turbo to see if it's still intact? Did your turbo somehow let go?

 

[Benny71]

Ah man...that really sucks to see.

I'm trying to figure out how that ended up on top of your intake valves though. Have you checked your turbo to see if it's still intact? Did your turbo somehow let go?

Yeah I'm still trying to figure out where they came from in the first place. I checked the turbo and all seems to be good. I think once I get the head off it'll be easier to see what happened and go from there.

 

[Benny71]

Not sure if anyone has seen this happen to our motors yet, but there you have it. The sleeve in the cylinder broke up. So now I’ll probably be looking at getting a new OEM long block. The current block is shit & the head would need a good amount of machine shop work as well.

 

[Awafrican]

Holy fucking shit that's a new one to me atleast. You could possibly get that block resleve with some fancy Dayton? Sleeves and full send

 

[JohnnyTightlips]

That's pretty wild, I am guessing that many miles and heat cycles there must have been a defect in the sleeve and it eventually went. That is a pretty crazy amount of miles for any car let alone a turbo car. Congrats and sadness.

 

[L337TurboZ]

good lord. if the head is still usable and you'd like to sell it let me know. I would like a head to port and build up.