davychronic's build

[davychronic]

So did it run well on the ls2 coils when the aux fuel controller was not installed?

How exactly is your new split second controller wired in? Which wires at what OEM sensors are you using?

I never had the ls2 coils installed without the ss controller installed, might try that. It gets its tach signal from the cam sensor middle wire if i remember right. Pcm ground i also get from the cam sensor. And power and chasis ground, thats it. Everything is soldered. The cam sensor, if i remember right, is only really used for fueling tho and its definately an ignition related issue i feel.

 

[Ssinstaller]

I know the old split second controller had to have a pulldown resistor resistor installed along with the trigger circuit to function properly. I'd bet the new on has a similar issue as well.

The cam sensor is used for sequential fuel injection, but it's also used to time the coil firing event in COP ignition systems... I would find tach for the split second controller somewhere else...

 

[davychronic]

I know the old split second controller had to have a pulldown resistor resistor installed along with the trigger circuit to function properly. I'd bet the new on has a similar issue as well.

The cam sensor is used for sequential fuel injection, but it's also used to time the coil firing event in COP ignition systems... I would find tach for the split second controller somewhere else...

The guy from split second specifically told that wont work that the new box is completely different frome the old one. He told me nothing is the same between the two and that the new box loves cam sensor signals and they havent had any problems using the cam sensor. Ive used injector pulse for the tach signal and had the same issue, also used obd2 for tach signal and same issue. I picked up some itv22 plugs last night that i may throw in and see whats what and turn wgdc to 0 and see if it happens at all or happens later with the lower load.

 

[Ssinstaller]

Before you make any other changes I would just unplug the split second box and make a few pulls.

 

[JohnnyTightlips]

Did you get this figure out?

 

[davychronic]

Did you get this figure out?

Not yet, havent even had time to look at the forum. Been a crazy year farming so far. Hopefully in 3 weeks ill have time to work on the 6 again.

 

[davychronic]

Ok been busier than shit this year, weather has been absolutely nuts. I picked up an ingition harness and coils off of a 79k mile car and am going to swap them out to work towards fixing this spark blowout issue. Before i added the sscontroller pi and tb,i never once experienced this issue and made more power than i am currently. Even before with my cs turbo running 30psi, no issue. Isuspect the am ignition coil i replaced my blown one with cant handle the load. On the fuel side im going to put the stock pump and hanger in the driver side only drilling for the pump outlet to go to my -6 fitting and return going to the stock feed. Im going to put one of my dw pumps in the passenger side hat and still have it come on at 3psi boost. Im not sure yet what im going to do about the stock fpr, i dunno how it will jive with the other fpr. Im no fluid dynamics expert. Anyway hopefully this all fixes my issues and i can finally tune this beast. Still it will be a little while before i can put in the time on it but its getting closer. Im hoping to make it to the epic midwest meet for the first time this year but it should be going by then.

This post looks boring without any pictures so heres some pics of a truck i bought this month.

Its a 1974 Chevy C65 (same truck as a duece and a half if you ever served youll know) with a 427 engine and 4+2 shift trans/rear end. Has 49k verified original miles with a yearly inspection by a local truck ahop done every year back to 1976. I picked it up for only $7k and its been pretty fun to drive around getting used to the 2 speed rear end and split shifting. Already have a full holley sniper efi system on the way to replace the junk stock holley carb. Should be fun to put a couple hundred miles a year on come harvest time.

So yea theres my most recent update, hope this weekend i can get some time put in on the 6 and get this shit figured out.

 

[davychronic]

Ok this next 7 or so days i plan on spending 4 hours a day to get everything figured out and wrapped up. Ive been gettin in a little time here and there on it but still a lot to do.
Im working on finishing up these new flare i got that dont pome as much. Im liking how these look a lot more and plan to mold them in with filler this winter in my now insulated and soon to be heated garage.

So next on the list is squaring away the fuel pump issues. I bought a new factory itfp module to put in one dw300c and i crushed the fpr as flat as i could so it shouldnt be regulating pressure at all. The other pump is going in the passenger side module thing.

Once thats done im running out all of the e30 and filling up on good known 91 and starting the tuning process over.

 

[davychronic]

So i cant get the passenger side hat off for the life of me. I purposely broke all the tabs i could and used my fuelp pump tool and its breaking the spines on top of the lock ring so i tried turning it with a prybar and bfh and no beans. I guess ill have to buy or make a stupid surge tank now. I fucking hate this specific car, if anyone has a line on a clean body vrm speed 6 lemme know prefer blown engine. So what i plan to do for now is just run a single dw300c in a stockish fuel basket and see how far i can go. Ill likely have to lower my fuel pressure about 15psi to be able to get the most i can out of the pump.

I am on brand spanking new itv22 plugs gapped to .018 and swapped out my coils for the ones i got fb. The harness will take a little more work. Also i removed power from the ss controller and flashed a 0wgdc map and had no spark blowout but only 20psi creeping to 22. I started thinking about the ckps and i remember last time i drove this car to texas i blew an intercooler hose and it gave me a code that had to do with the ckps so i took it off (all of this about a year ago in texas) to inspect it and reinstalled it. Is it possible that if it was maybe installed off a hair in either direction that it could cause my trouble and not throw a code? I guess i could jack up my car and check to make sure its at the right spot. @Ssinstaller maybe any insight on this?

Felt nice to finally drive it again, got an appt on tuesday to get it aligned so it would be nice to have a lot of this shit figured out by then. I really think im ready to pull the trigger on versatune and ditch the ap since im starting my tune over anyways.

@Sho tell me about your fuel setup

 

[AYOUSTIN]

Just cut the ring off with a dremel and buy a new one, they're like $20 at the dealer. I always struggled getting mine off too. Surge tanks are an even bigger headache than this and always end up costing more money than you think.

 

[davychronic]

Just cut the ring off with a dremel and buy a new one, they're like $20 at the dealer. I always struggled getting mine off too. Surge tanks are an even bigger headache than this and always end up costing more money than you think.

Yea i honestly think id just quit power wise if i had to resort to a surge tank and easier said than done for me to get parts from a dealer, closest one over 100 miles away. Always order from chi town and get bent over for shipping and wait forever. You know if the ford fusion equivent has the same ring? Local ford dealer has helped me cross parts in the past.


I did end up ordering versatune today, fuck cobb. And i was able to get it to break up doing a 4th gear pull going against the wind up a hill i was able to build 23.5psi and it did it. Im going to lift the car after it cools down and check my ckps.

And another thing thats racking my brain right now is how im hitting 4.24v on my maf at 23psi and generating a 3.0 load. Doesnt make sense to me on a 3.5” maf and only running the stock injectors.

 

[davychronic]

Well now i feel like a newb, it is a cunt hair off.

So i moved it over a tad. Hopefully life is good now, going to plug the ss controller back in and see whats what.

 

[AYOUSTIN]

If you want to reimburse me I can get one at the dealer down the street and mail it to you.

 

[davychronic]

If you want to reimburse me I can get one at the dealer down the street and mail it to you.

Please do it, send me a bill on paypal, still got my info?

 

[Sho]

Hey sir.

My fuel setup is probably one of the most simple setups being run. I haven't had any fuel starvation issues, but ymmv. I also make sure to never wot below a 1/4 tank (3-4 gal left in tank)

But here it is:

Aeromotive stealth 320 in tank fuel pump in a stock unmodified basket

On the top of the Hpfp where the low pressure line connects to the Hpfp housing , I have this adapter
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-15120

The stock low pressure line will connect right to the top of that.

Then I have a -6AN line running from the port on the side of that adapter running straight to the rail on the JMF.

Jmf has four Bosch 2200cc injectors in it (overkill but I got em cheap)

And the return side of the PI rail on the jmf is plugged since I run no return. I do not run an aftermarket FPR or anything either. Just crushed the stock regulator.

Here's a pic. I did upgrade the stock low pressure line to a steel braided -6AN ptfe line. And the line running from the adapter in the summit racing link above to the rail on the jmf is also -6AN PTFE line since I run strictly an E48 mix


So far its been good for this kind of power (was on the dyno yesterday afternoon.) 87* shop temp at 28% humidity

AFR target is 12.0, but I am running closer to 11.4 past 7k rpm



Here's what the logs look like for run 2 and 3 of that graph (I did hide some Colums, but you can see how maf is scaled as my Tuna has my PI kick on around 3.6-3.8V) hopefully this helps (I don't want to share the entire log out of respect to my tuner, as we have a good trust and he let's me tinker with my own maps so I don't always have to bother him with simple stuff like adjusting wgdc or fueling)



I'll probably touch up the fueling a bit,but this was my first time touching the split second map on my own. And wanted to get a feel for it in a controlled environment. Now that I have a better idea, I should be able to smooth it out a bit to hold closer to 12.0 during an entire WOT pull

 

[davychronic]

Hey sir.

My fuel setup is probably one of the most simple setups being run. I haven't had any fuel starvation issues, but ymmv. I also make sure to never wot below a 1/4 tank (3-4 gal left in tank)

But here it is:

Aeromotive stealth 320 in tank fuel pump in a stock unmodified basket

On the top of the Hpfp where the low pressure line connects to the Hpfp housing , I have this adapter
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-15120

The stock low pressure line will connect right to the top of that.

Then I have a -6AN line running from the port on the side of that adapter running straight to the rail on the JMF.

Jmf has four Bosch 2200cc injectors in it (overkill but I got em cheap)

And the return side of the PI rail on the jmf is plugged since I run no return. I do not run an aftermarket FPR or anything either. Just crushed the stock regulator.

Here's a pic. I did upgrade the stock low pressure line to a steel braided -6AN ptfe line. And the line running from the adapter in the summit racing link above to the rail on the jmf is also -6AN PTFE line since I run strictly an E48 mix
View attachment 8867

So far its been good for this kind of power (was on the dyno yesterday afternoon.) 87* shop temp at 28% humidity

AFR target is 12.0, but I am running closer to 11.4 past 7k rpm

View attachment 8868

Here's what the logs look like for run 2 and 3 of that graph (I did hide some Colums, but you can see how maf is scaled as my Tuna has my PI kick on around 3.6-3.8V) hopefully this helps (I don't want to share the entire log out of respect to my tuner, as we have a good trust and he let's me tinker with my own maps so I don't always have to bother him with simple stuff like adjusting wgdc or fueling)

View attachment 8869 View attachment 8870

I understand why you dont want to share your full logs and hats off for the respect.

So do you know what your (low side) fuel pressure actually is? Stock is what 65, so lets just say as an example you are running 65 then minus your 35psi boost then you are only talking a net 30psi fuel pressure which im sure the yuuuuge injectors help but that seems like to me a little low, i think you want to maintain 45psi but Im no expert @AYOUSTIN would know better than me. So im curious how much you gained from crushing the stock fpr. I mean obviously its working and working well, just hard for me to wrap my head around it. I crushed mine so the spring is fully compressed inside hoping for free flow to my fpr on the engine. Im also surprised your fuel pump nets you that kind of power, do you have a boost a pump on it as well? One other thing i have a question on your setup is that your pi rail doesnt have constant flow unless you are the stig and are constantly over 3.2v. So my concern is the fuel in the rail getting hot and vaporlocking. Also no expert here, just from what ive read. Now personally i thought originally about doing returnless and going through the rail ending at the hpfp but i figured the motor is overbuilt, might as well overbuild the fuel system so i ran new -8 feed. Shame about your hg, glad to see you turn it around so fast and kicking ass almost 600 wheel. Oh yea are you running the bosch 3.5 bar from edge? What scalars are you on?

Tomorrow im going to flash a map for my pi injectors and try and see if my ckpsbeing a little off made the difference, look like it was maybe a degree or two advanced. We will see. Going to be quite a task to build a map from scratch in versatuner, seems totally 100% different than accesstuner with lots of extra tables. Ill be up all night

 

[Sho]

I do not have a clue what the low side pressure is, and I do not have a boost a pump. I've always had the mindset of "if it works, send it" lol.

May not be the best advice, but I know it works for at least the power level I'm at.

As far as vapor lock, I don't know I've never had the car stumble at WOT or go super lean or anything that would point to it vaporizing in the rail. I've taken logs since the HG and headstuds were put in, in near triple digit temps with 80+% humidity. Dunno if the rail being anodized helps anything or not though

 

[davychronic]

I do not have a clue what the low side pressure is, and I do not have a boost a pump. I've always had the mindset of "if it works, send it" lol.

May not be the best advice, but I know it works for at least the power level I'm at.

As far as vapor lock, I don't know I've never had the car stumble at WOT or go super lean or anything that would point to it vaporizing in the rail. I've taken logs since the HG and headstuds were put in, in near triple digit temps with 80+% humidity. Dunno if the rail being anodized helps anything or not though

Yea maybe that rail being aluminum really soaks a lot of heat out of the fuel

 

[Sho]

Also yes on the Bosch 3.5 bar from edge, and using a bitwise pnp harness from Rpm store I believe

Scalars in Cobb ATR are set to:
Component A: 312.50
Component B: 0.24
Offset: -12.50 (negative 12.50)

This nets me a key on engine off reading of 0.01 to 0.06psi depending on ambient baro pressure
[doublepost=1532056518][/doublepost]Also to add , it seems I'm barely stressing the fuel system as is. My DI IDC is quite low up top and in the ssc map, my 2200's are on for like a max value of 3.3-3.4 milliseconds at 4.5 maf voltage. So I imagine duty cycle on the PI side is quite low throughout an entire pull

Not sure if this is accurate (my ssc is set to 2 cyl/2 stroke)



At 7300rpm, that calculator spits out 20% IDC

 

[davychronic]

Also yes on the Bosch 3.5 bar from edge, and using a bitwise pnp harness from Rpm store I believe

Scalars in Cobb ATR are set to:
Component A: 312.50
Component B: 0.24
Offset: -12.50 (negative 12.50)

This nets me a key on engine off reading of 0.01 to 0.06psi depending on ambient baro pressure
[doublepost=1532056518][/doublepost]Also to add , it seems I'm barely stressing the fuel system as is. My DI IDC is quite low up top and in the ssc map, my 2200's are on for like a max value of 3.3-3.4 milliseconds at 4.5 maf voltage. So I imagine duty cycle on the PI side is quite low throughout an entire pull

Not sure if this is accurate (my ssc is set to 2 cyl/2 stroke)

View attachment 8871

At 7300rpm, that calculator spits out 20% IDC

Those scalars are the same im running, just making sure im not missing something. Lots of scalars are thrown around in the 3.5 bar map thread. Im not sure how good a duty cycle calculator will do since all injectors are different. My injectors for example have a max flow at 9ms and i have another set of injectors that max at 16ms. So a good estimation would be finding the datasheet on your injectors to see where you fall with 3ms. Either way you will never even probably use half the duty cycle of those injectors lol