Engine Noise, suspect timing chain.

Scaytale

Scaytale

Gold Member
ENGINE/DRIVABILITY
Updated to add link to video since it didn't seem to play when I tried to see it.
Surprised no one mentioned it.

Year/Make/Model: 2013 MazdaSpeed3
Mileage: 162217
Location: Virginia
Concern: Engine Noise, Timing chain? Cam advance? Something else?
This noise started on a test drive about 3 miles in after entering the freeway, not real loud on the road and I didn’t push the engine at all, this was going to be a test drive after getting the leak at the valve cover fixed (the head was cracked). This required replacing the head.
Prior to this, and after installing the 2.5 the Engine ran well and I was just starting the MAF calibration when it started leaking at the Valve cover, it took a long time to figure out it was the head and get a replacement. There is a post about my valve cover issue on the forum. https://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/valve-cover-oil-leak.16535/
once I got the new head on and ran the engine it seemed fine, no leaks good vacuum, took it for a short ride to make sure it got hot and there were no leaks.
And that’s when I heard the noise mentioned above.
This used to be the Daily Driver, so never pushed real hard or anything but bolt ons mentioned above. When it spun the bearing, I was already looking for a new Mazda 3 turbo, so I just speeded up the process. https://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/wastegate-duty-cycle-not-effecting-boost.16023/
Now I am trying to get the Speed3 back on the road.
DTC's: (please include descriptions) P0172 "System Too Rich (Bank 1) Working on that
Modifications:
Autotech Fuel Pump Internals
Cobb Access Port, airbox, Intake, Downpipe.
Corksport Recirculation/Bypass Valve, SS Exhaust Manifold, Boost Control Solenoid, CST4 Turbo, Rear Motor Mount, Injector Seals, Front Sway Bar
CPe Top Mount Intercooler, similar to the Corksport Top Mount
Large hood scoop
2.5 from 2014 ford Escape with 2.5L Duratec "Long Rod" and piston kit and total seal rings, 9.5 compression from Esslinger.
ECU/Tuning Software: Access Port V3
Tuner: Yours Truly (currently using stage 0, with zero waste gate, running rich)
Is the concern intermittent? No, It is consistent at RPM
Can you duplicate the concern? Yes
Recent Repairs: Replaced Cylinder Head, with the engine in the car
Correction: Evaluation and measuring, good Vacuum, will get a compression test soon.

Also include logs of the issue

I am going to upload video and logs sitting in the driveway, I keep getting a security Warning when I try to upload the other video's, not sure why yet, might be size.
Template public:_media_site_embed_vimeo not found. Try rebuilding or reinstalling the s9e/MediaSites add-on.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Good Day all you viewers
Had some other life stuff come up so just getting back to this.
I was going to do the Comp check this afternoon, went out to warm up the engine and found some OBD2 Codes, Most importantly
P0012 - A Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded Bank 1
Could be; Bad or failing camshaft variable timing solenoid, or Bad or failing variable valve timing actuator, or Failed timing chain guide or tensioner.
I discount the others because the chain is the 2.5 chain with less than 30,000 miles, the oil is at the right level and is quality oil, and the VVT was cleaned.
I also got a P0193 - Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit High Bank 1, Checking into that now. Might just have a bad sender. I have cleaned the contacts with contact cleaner and will see if that helps. Also Checked the ground it is clean and free of paint.
Still plan to do the Comp test but it seems like Valve timing.

If anyone has other suggestions on what to check and how to test, I would be happy to hear it.
Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Tested the Voltage at the VVT pigtail, and the resistance at the solenoid, all good.
Didn't get the Comp test but planning that today, hopefully it works out better than yesterday.
 
Good Day All,
Did the Compression test, cold, No surprises
1, 170
2, 160
3, 175
4, 170
All within 5% of each other
Decided on a leak down test, Also done cold, I know that isn't the best, did it that way anyway. No Surprises.
1, 3%
2, 4%
3, 5%
4, 4%

It is going to rain soon, and then rain of an on until Wednesday, so I waited on pulling the valve cover. I may try to get a look between rains showers, but I am getting tired of this, and other life stuff gets in the way.
It is looking like I will have to pull the front cover to find out if the Timing Chain tensioner is faulty.
Good time to review Rokusek,
VVT The Roku Way
As always any thoughts on this issue would be appreciated.
 
I forgot to add this last night, anyone know where I can get one of these?
It seems to have broken the clip and I think it "could" have caused the P0012 code.
20250511_132405[1].jpg
 
Please check out the Vid and see if you think the chain is tight
Template public:_media_site_embed_vimeo not found. Try rebuilding or reinstalling the s9e/MediaSites add-on.
 
I feel Like a Farmer.
Everything I check is correct but the result still sucks.
Today I had time to check the valve timing. Spun the engine around about three times, put the crank TDC pin in and spun it to contact.
The timing plate slide right in, didn't have to wiggle the cams or anything.

Template public:_media_site_embed_vimeo not found. Try rebuilding or reinstalling the s9e/MediaSites add-on.
 

Attachments

  • 20250607_132354[1].jpg
    20250607_132354[1].jpg
    2.4 MB · Views: 1
  • 20250607_132407[1].jpg
    20250607_132407[1].jpg
    3.2 MB · Views: 1
  • 20250607_132419[1].jpg
    20250607_132419[1].jpg
    3.7 MB · Views: 1
Last edited:
Thanks for the input
I will check again for exhaust leaks, Didn't find any after the head replacement, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
I hope it isn't a spun bearing since there isn't even 500 miles on the engine after putting in the Long Rod and piston kit from Esslinger.
Have to travel and will be away from home starting mid June to mid August, so I don't know what I can get done in that time if it is a spun bearing.

Again thanks for the input.
 
This is the last time I will be able to look at the Speed before traveling West for the Summer, till Aug anyway.
Put everything back together. Got some help, someone to be in the car while I checked things.
The video was made today so you can hear it better at 3000 RPM.
First, checked for Exhaust leaks as per Easter Bunny, No Leak detected.
Second, Used Mechanics Stethoscope to listen at each Intake and Exhaust port, they all sound the same.
Got under the car to listen at the Pan, nothing unusual. (Earlier check the piston height with Dial indicator, all the same.
This leads me to believe that there is no spun bearing.
Third, I started listening all around the engine, until I could, find the noisiest part and the /knocking banging sound, at 3000 RPM.
It seems to be right at the top of the front part of the Valve cover, so it seems the Timing chain is hitting the Valve cover.
Since the valve timing is perfect, and the chain has only 30,000 miles and is a 2.5 chain, I believe it is likely the reused tensioner not able to hold oil pressure.
I did see indications on the Valve cover when I took it off to check the timing, however, I don't know when that might have happened since I bout the car used and I never looked before. When I put the Valve cover back on this time I cover those spots with bluing so when I take it off when I get back and the bluing is gone I will know for sure.
Sad that I didn't change this $50 part when I did the Swap.
Template public:_media_site_embed_vimeo not found. Try rebuilding or reinstalling the s9e/MediaSites add-on.
 
I hope so but I won't know till near the end of Aug when I get back home.
Got other Priorities right now
 
Since you’ve had a Tapered Roller bearing failure in the past, you can’t rule out that another rod or main bearing has started to fail again, especially if any debris or oil starvation occurred when you spun the first one. The rich running (P0172) might be washing down cylinder walls, diluting oil, or adding stress to the bottom end too. Before driving further, I’d recommend doing a full compression test, listening carefully with a mechanic’s stethoscope to pinpoint whether the noise is top end (timing components) or low end (HA590372 bearings), and dropping the oil pan to inspect for glitter or debris if you suspect bearings at all.
 
Last edited:
Hey Tony,
Those are all great Ideas!
The first post talks about the Vacuum test and an Upcoming compression test.
The 4th post gives the results of the compression test and a Leak down test.
In the 10th post I talk about using the mechanic’s stethoscope, and the results.
I didn't drop the Oil pan, even though I may when I get home, never hurts to check. However your premise for "glitter" or debris is incorrect.
While I did spin a bearing in the Speed3, it was in the 2.3, in the first post, where you likely read about the spun bearing I state that it is now a 2.5 bottom end and in post 9 I talk about in the putting in the Long Rod and piston kit from Esslinger.

I will likely drop the pan, when I pull the front cover to change the Tensioner, It is a good Idea to check, thanks for that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top