Ms3 + track day= crazy high temps

[kornerz]

I took my new to me 2008 ms3 to willow springs last Sunday for a little fun. The car handled much better than I expected but I couldn’t keep the coolant temps in check. It ranged from 210-231*. I only took it out on the first session of the day, it was only 85* when I was on track.
I’m thinking these need a bigger radiator and a proper oil cooler to survive track conditions?

 

[Easter Bunny]

What are your mods? If you are still stock turbo you don't need anything to survive track days

Stock temp range is pretty high. 231 might not be out of spec

 

[kornerz]

What are your mods? If you are still stock turbo you don't need anything to survive track days

Stock temp range is pretty high. 231 might not be out of spec

Dyno tune, intercooler, cobb intake and rb cat back. I thought it would survive a track day, but I don’t know now. I wish more locals would track so I would have something to compare to

 

[Easter Bunny]

You need to close all of the gaps around the intercooler piping. It's allowing air to bypass the radiator. Do you have the plastic splash shield installed underneath?

 

[Tomas]

230F is absolutely fine. The PWM logic for the fans only kick at 100% duty cycle after around 215F.
I would start worrying after around 240F or when the temp needle starts climbing past the middle position.
The koyo rad is am improvement but not much. You are better served with a large oil cooler mounted through a sandwhich plate by the oil filter and even better with a fan on the oil cooler unless it has direct airflow.

 

[gotovato]

Speaking from experience 230f max is fine. My stock block peaked 241f multiple multiple times on track. That’s basically the upper limit and where I would start cooling down.

210-230 is OK. You’re safe.
I’d look into ducting your front end(even minor ducting helps) also an oil cooler will help some as well but it won’t solve the entire issue of high coolant temps. Expect to have your car LIVE around 230 while on track.

this said your oil temps were probably close to 300f at this point. My oil would live around 280-300f on track while my coolant temps would be 220-240. Get an oil cooler on the car for that reason alone.

 

[StreetSpeed6]

Speaking from experience 230f max is fine. My stock block peaked 241f multiple multiple times on track. That’s basically the upper limit and where I would start cooling down.

210-230 is OK. You’re safe.
I’d look into ducting your front end(even minor ducting helps) also an oil cooler will help some as well but it won’t solve the entire issue of high coolant temps. Expect to have your car LIVE around 230 while on track.

this said your oil temps were probably close to 300f at this point. My oil would live around 280-300f on track while my coolant temps would be 220-240. Get an oil cooler on the car for that reason alone.

Just wondering but do you have a balance shaft delete? If so that extra quart or so of oil would help with temps wouldn't it? Also would high speed rad fans be better than factory to really pull the temp out fast?

 

[gotovato]

Just wondering but do you have a balance shaft delete? If so that extra quart or so of oil would help with temps wouldn't it? Also would high speed rad fans be better than factory to really pull the temp out fast?

Rad fans do NOTHING at speed. Everyone’s obsessed with fans yet they don’t understand.

THE FANS ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WHILE THE CAR IS MOVING. lol. Nothing. 0. High speed fans would simply help at idle, and low speed. So coming off track sure it’ll bring temps down quicker but past that nothing. You should be doing a nice cool down lap before coming off anyways.

my built motor has a bsd yes. But I’ve also gotten my oil to 250-260 on the street after only a few pulls. You go 2-3-4 wot each gear to redline you’ll see some temps. Do that a couple times(like 3) you’re into the 250’s already(depending on power and rpm of redline of course). On track you’re basically doing constant pulls. Just itching to get back to wot.

 

[Easter Bunny]

The extra oil from the bad just means it takes a little longer to warm up but it won't keep the peak temperature down at all

Isn't the dry capacity of these 7 quarts and it's just that 1 quart is held back by the bad?

 

[gotovato]

The extra oil from the bad just means it takes a little longer to warm up but it won't keep the peak temperature down at all

Isn't the dry capacity of these 7 quarts and it's just that 1 quart is held back by the bad?

Dry capacity is 6.1quarts I believe(from the manual). With BSD 7quarts is “full”. I always over fill by about half a quart myself. Had good luck with that.

 

[StreetSpeed6]

Ok, so no for fans gotcha lol I don't track and probably never will or at least not with my 6. That being said I think it is great but the mileage has caught up with it and im tired of replacing everything on it. I also seem to probably over fill mine but mine leaks next to my hpfp so it helps with that too.

 

[jsilva]

This is interesting.

I’m curious, how much does heat soak affect track time? Do 210-230+° temps always result in heat soak or is that avoided using other means?

The reason I ask is that I can tell when my MS6 is getting heat soak and I’m not even on a track I had been considering the Koyo Hyper V-Core radiator to help, but from what people are saying here maybe an oil cooler would be more useful?

 

[Easter Bunny]

What do you think heat soak is? 230 ° is normal operating temp if your not exceeding that you won't have time issues. If your intercooler is heatsoaking it's either too small for the power or it's lacking airflow

 

[Awafrican]

^ this

Rad fans kick on at what 228-235f?

 

[jsmith]

Rad fans kick in at ~214-218 I thought. Gen Two for reference.

 

[jsilva]

What do you think heat soak is? 230 ° is normal operating temp if your not exceeding that you won't have time issues. If your intercooler is heatsoaking it's either too small for the power or it's lacking airflow

Thanks I recognise that heat soak is running beyond the system’s ability to cool, but I assumed when people refer to heat soak with these engines they’re simply referring to heat affecting the performance. So that’s what I meant.

Usually I notice performance decreasing when I’ve been driving slower for a while and/or idling, which is common around town. Once it gets to a certain point it never seems to fully recover. That’s why I’ve been considering other cooling options.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

I think when you are hearing Heat soak more commonly is referring to the intercooler. The intercooler is affected by ambient temps and/or heat rising from the engine when stopped if you are top mount.
Both can reduce its efficiency. Moving air past the intercooler can help reduce the heat soak, suck as when driving.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[jsilva]

I think when you are hearing Heat soak more commonly is referring to the intercooler. The intercooler is affected by ambient temps and/or heat rising from the engine when stopped if you are top mount.
Both can reduce its efficiency. Moving air past the intercooler can help reduce the heat soak, suck as when driving.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Thanks! So I’m assuming this is why people use FMIC’s? I thought I recall reading Awafrican saying a decent TMIC is still very good (forgive me if I’m remembering wrong).

I’m guessing for those driving on a track they have their intercooler soak sorted out, or maybe track speeds keep it cool enough. So maybe a better-than-OEM intercooler would be a better investment than a radiator or oil cooler?

 

[Easter Bunny]

For what you are describing an intercooler would be a better bet. The only real way to recover is to drive at higher speed without boosting. I would go to upgraded topmount as dale gribble found out on the other forum going to a front mount tr8 was about the efficiency of the Cobb or ets top mount on a speed six and that was with some effort put into blocking off the sides and putting in some ducting

 

[kornerz]

Thanks for all the input fellas. I’ll try it again in a couple weeks after I tape up all the radiator ducting.
Fans don’t do anything after 30ish mph. Some track cars don’t even run them.