Road racing setup help

I got Mattyhawks old setup last month. It's Focus ST inner tie rods and a bumpsteer/outer tie rod kit from Steeda. (Spacer required for the inner toe rod)

@phate I've watched your video, love all your stuff. I just didn't want to the math because at first I wasn't sure if I was going to notice any change. (Originally thought I had a sway bar issue). I couldn't measure anything well the way I had it, because the camber change at compression and rebound was throwing off my control height laser marking. Your way looks better and is what I will use when I revisit it in a few weeks. Hence why I just eyeballed it in the end.
 
The problem with projecting onto a wall or on the ground is that it doesn't account for change in track width (scrub) through the vertical range of the wheel assembly. Using the laser line and mirror trick eliminates that issue :)
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Mauro_Penguin said:
Bumpsteer is a jerking of the steering wheel back and fourth while going over uneven road.

Tramlining you grip and maintain, bumpsteer you grip and have to fight a back and fourth only on bumps which is more difficult necause of how fast it moves back and fourth.

That's just me, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Bump steer is purely a function of the suspension geometry. If you look at the top view plane of the suspension steering geometry with a specific steering angle, you'll see that it's just a 4 bar linkage like most everything else in the suspension. subframe, LCA, knuckle, and tie rod. The lengths of the subframe and knuckle are static in the top view - the LCA and tie rod are not. The horizontal length of both the tie rod and LCA change throughout vertical motion of the wheel assembly - and that change relative to each other is what causes the knuckle to rotate.

Remember that everything travels in arcs - you cannot eliminate bump steer unless you redesign the entire front suspension. What you can do is move the unwanted behavior to a different part of the range. Alternatively, you opt to not operate in the "bad" part of the range.
 
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phate said:
Remember that everything travels in arcs - you cannot eliminate bump steer unless you redesign the entire front suspension. What you can do is move the unwanted behavior to a different part of the range. Alternatively, you opt to not operate in the "bad" part of the range.
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QFT
 
thanks all for the wealth of knowledge. i guess first step is to try and get that whiteline kit installed, then play with alignment. im fortunate to have access to a shop thatll align my car however i want and can make tweaks and adjustments along the way till i find what works best for my car
 
hey all, so my car will be getting an alignment today as my corksport camber plates have just been installed. Are there any specs youd recommend for me to use? i see mention of 1/16" of toe often, but should i be going with toe in, or toe out? any other advice regarding alignment right now would be great, Thanks!
 
gotovato said:
hey all, so my car will be getting an alignment today as my corksport camber plates have just been installed. Are there any specs youd recommend for me to use? i see mention of 1/16" of toe often, but should i be going with toe in, or toe out? any other advice regarding alignment right now would be great, Thanks!
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For track use it will be toe out. I would run camber ~3 degree and 1/32 to 1/16 toe out on the front. On the rear if you have adjustable arms for toe I would run as high as 1/4 which will make the car loose but it will really help get the car rotated.

Before people comment on that much toe out I have run as high as 1/2 on our road race car which is really really loose but necessary on some tracks and feedback from the driver.

-Derrick
 
CorkSport - Derrick said:
For track use it will be toe out. I would run camber ~3 degree and 1/32 to 1/16 toe out on the front. On the rear if you have adjustable arms for toe I would run as high as 1/4 which will make the car loose but it will really help get the car rotated.

Before people comment on that much toe out I have run as high as 1/2 on our road race car which is really really loose but necessary on some tracks and feedback from the driver.

-Derrick
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Hey thanks for the info. i was planning to run around ~3 degrees of camber just wasnt sure on toe but 1/16 out sounds good. for now i dont have aftermarket adjustments for the rear.
 
Another question here, what are you guys liking for brake fluid and engine oil? im just curious if the expensive racing oils are worth it or not? i typically use redline 5w40 for my street oil and on track, but recently tried millers racing oil and it seems to hold up pretty well but it is not cheap and i dump it pretty often(3500KM on the street or after every event). Whats everyone using?
 
Code Monkey said:
Castrol SRF for serious road racing duty; don't even bother with Motul 600/660.

I change oil every three hpde weekends; you want one with HTHS ideally 3.5 or more.
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ok i currently have stoptech 660 fluid as of now, seems to be ok but i dont really do a full flush that often so if the expense of the SRF is worth it i may switch to that. in terms of oil, are the expensive racing oils worth while ? the redline i use has an HTHS of 4.4 so i guess thats pretty solid. i was told by a shop to dump it after every event but i felt that was maybe too soon
[doublepost=1530901828][/doublepost]also, do you think a 40wt is acceptable? or is there reason to jump up to a 50wt?
 
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gotovato said:
ok i currently have stoptech 660 fluid as of now, seems to be ok but i dont really do a full flush that often so if the expense of the SRF is worth it i may switch to that. in terms of oil, are the expensive racing oils worth while ? the redline i use has an HTHS of 4.4 so i guess thats pretty solid. i was told by a shop to dump it after every event but i felt that was maybe too soon
[doublepost=1530901828][/doublepost]also, do you think a 40wt is acceptable? or is there reason to jump up to a 50wt?
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It depends on how bad you are cooking the brakes. On my Spec Miata I change the fluid out every 3-4 race weekends. On the Mazda 3 T4 car it is every race weekend from the calipers burning and needed to be replaced.

-Derrick
 
CorkSport - Derrick said:
It depends on how bad you are cooking the brakes. On my Spec Miata I change the fluid out every 3-4 race weekends. On the Mazda 3 T4 car it is every race weekend from the calipers burning and needed to be replaced.

-Derrick
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Perfect thanks for the input! so far i havent really had any issue cooking brakes but as i start pushing harder this may become and issue. Ill pay attention for the signs of cooked fluid
 
went to the track this weekend with my newly installed corksport camber plates, and some SS brake lines up front, and a new tune from nishan. felt like a different car. it was great. Few things i noticed though, i think i may have cooked my brake fluid. my nice firm pedal has gotten a bit soft almost like theres air in the line, this was after a 20 minute session of hot laps, and i was pushing the braking zones as far as i could. Next thing is coolant temp, my mistake for not paying attention but i let it get up to 230f although that was only peak and it dropped back to the 221f it hangs out at. @Code Monkey i read your big thread about mazdaspeed 6 for road racing, i noticed you did do some ducting work at some point for the radiator, what material did you use? im thinking i can seal my FMIC and radiator forcing more air into the radiator using corrugated plastic?
 
On the sides, between the radiator and the plastic radiator support frame, I just used some foam I had lying around and Gorilla tape. The side pieces that are in the grill and divert the air to the radiator, I had my shop do them, I think they are some thin aluminum sheets, you can cut them to shape with regular scissors.

Also, for coolant, I run 1/2 of water wetter, a quart of 50/50 coolant mix, and fill the rest with distilled water.
 
Code Monkey said:
On the sides, between the radiator and the plastic radiator support frame, I just used some foam I had lying around and Gorilla tape. The side pieces that are in the grill and divert the air to the radiator, I had my shop do them, I think they are some thin aluminum sheets, you can cut them to shape with regular scissors.

Also, for coolant, I run 1/2 of water wetter, a quart of 50/50 coolant mix, and fill the rest with distilled water.
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ok thanks for the input. im thinking due to my own limitations that corrugated plastic, gorilla tape, and maybe zipties will have to do for some basic ducting along the sides of fmic and radiator, help funnel air through the fmic, and through the radiator instead of it escaping. for coolant, i will try the suggested mix. a few degrees lower will be nice, even if i can shave 10-15 degrees off i will feel more comfortable. As for my softer brake peddle feeling after this track day, is it safe to assume brake fluid is cooked?
 
On the MS6, the radiator fan comes on at 217, if you are seeing 230 at the track I would investigate further. I think I saw a max of 219-221? A simple check is to park the car and keep the rpms at 3000-4000 for a few minutes, once the radiator fan kicks in stay on the gas pedal and see if the coolant temps go down to 217 or whatever the number is for the MS3. If the temp keeps climbing up, you most likely do not have enough coolant in the system or have air in the system.

Are you still on stock calipers? Get some temp strips on the calipers and see how hot they get. Are you on Castrol SRF?
 
Code Monkey said:
On the MS6, the radiator fan comes on at 217, if you are seeing 230 at the track I would investigate further. I think I saw a max of 219-221? A simple check is to park the car and keep the rpms at 3000-4000 for a few minutes, once the radiator fan kicks in stay on the gas pedal and see if the coolant temps go down to 217 or whatever the number is for the MS3. If the temp keeps climbing up, you most likely do not have enough coolant in the system or have air in the system.

Are you still on stock calipers? Get some temp strips on the calipers and see how hot they get. Are you on Castrol SRF?
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so my coolant temp spiked 230 as i saw that being the max value held in accessport, running temps while hot lapping are usually 221, and drop down to 212 or so during cool down. i am still on OEM radiator and OEM coolant so a good flush will probably make a difference.

as for calipers im on stock MS3 calipers with stoptech 660 fluid, and SS lines front, soon to install SS lines for rear as well. fluid has been in the car for a while now so its possible its just old ? is the jump to SRF worth the cost?
 
Code Monkey said:
Yes. :)
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ok based on the specs i see it really is top level stuff. Curious on what you would recommend for pads? i see you went through a serious amount of different pads. currently been using only hawk HP + as for the price they seem to work really well. maybe just a fluid upgrade and ill be good enough ? would really like to brake later as that is one of my biggest struggles im finding and thats what the instructor mentioned
 
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