funny how I sold my AP for under $400 since VT looks promising couple years ago. then finding myself looking for one AP right now.
Unable to hit commanded load
- Thread starter Enki
- Start date
JohnnyTightlips
Motorhead
Yeah I went VT because they talked like they would be doing a lot of development and it had some features I liked but now ughhh AP would have just been easier and at that time ATR was free with each AP.
haha I still have the atr for my AP that I sold.
steve@versatune
Approved Vendor
Would Justin be willing to share the unlocked tune with me so I can try to fix it? I made nearly 500awhp on my ms6 with VT. I don't know what the problem is with "big power and VT"
Ill let him know Steve. Ill tag you here once he reply to me.
Enki
Motorhead
Minor update on my end; more testing has been completed and no dice as of yet.
Here's what's been tested (in the tune) and the -> result:
Displacement decreased -> car runs rich, still under target load
VE increased -> car runs rich, still under target load
Displacement decreased and VE increased -> car gargles fuel and still under target load, WGDC under target
Stock displacement, VE decreased, WOT AFR enrichened -> very close to target airflow, not close to target load, very very lean, WGDC maxed
Conclusion:
AFR, Load, VE and displacement are tangled together in an unusual and potentially irregular way, preventing any one thing from being changed without affecting the other, despite not actually changing Massflow. All in all, it doesn't make sense.
Here's what's been tested (in the tune) and the -> result:
Displacement decreased -> car runs rich, still under target load
VE increased -> car runs rich, still under target load
Displacement decreased and VE increased -> car gargles fuel and still under target load, WGDC under target
Stock displacement, VE decreased, WOT AFR enrichened -> very close to target airflow, not close to target load, very very lean, WGDC maxed
Conclusion:
AFR, Load, VE and displacement are tangled together in an unusual and potentially irregular way, preventing any one thing from being changed without affecting the other, despite not actually changing Massflow. All in all, it doesn't make sense.
JohnnyTightlips
Motorhead
That sucks, I hope you tear it down and investigate.
So let me get this straight, you're hitting 4+ volts on your MAF sensor, 35+ psi, and you're saying VT is somehow limiting your car? In what way? Calculated load is low, yes, but Justin probably scaled the MAF cal (old school way of dealing with meth/PI, "hides" airflow "used" by the aux fuel, from the mass airflow value used by the ECU to calculate fueling for the stock injectors). I don't see a problem in this log. If it's pulling WGDC like he's saying up top, frankly, he probably missed one of the limiter/comp tables somewhere. VT being a pain in the ass to navigate and use compared to Cobb, I would not be surprised. I had that problem on a car recently that I was tuning and I thought I was going crazy. And it wasn't even a big turbo, just a 5558 I believe.
I actually tried to load up the tune in hopes that I could share the information about which table this was, however apparently I tuned the car on a slightly different version than I have right now, which means I cannot open the tune file at the moment and probably have to play the usual bullshit game where he and I update to the latest version and then he re-exports his tune files and sends them to me and so on and so forth. I have, in the mean time, temporarily rage quit while waiting for my 300 MB download to complete. By the way, I am not a "pro tuner" and although I have tuned maybe a couple dozen cars, I have accepted $0.00 and zero parts, beer, or other compensation to this date for my "services" just to set the record straight because VT offered to sell me VT pro to "alleviate" this issue, which I surely will not do considering this is a hobby for me.
I NEVER have to deal with this BS with Cobb. It is yet another thing (besides the horrid interface) about Versatuner that makes it a royal pain in the ass to use compared to Cobb. Suffice to say I understand Justin's frustration with this program and even though I own both VT and Cobb, I use Cobb on my personal vehicle.
This is what my tuner told me, "All of your load tables are set way out of reach from where we are hitting and the tune is pulling wgdc dropping boost as rpms go up."
Just FYI I'm not here blaming VT nor bashing VT or my tuner.
heck I'm still going to be transfering my VT to my genpu since its stock and wanna try that crackle pop shenanigans.
but its just not cutting for us. I get your point but frankly I just dont have any budget for another block if we keep messing with VT. If my tuner is having a hard time then I wont push him. It took us 4 revisions with same results and thats why we decided to stop.
Im not the type of guy who's gonna push my tuner nor I trust myself tuning the car. All I actually wanted was to rev to 8k.
come to think of it, I never saw my IDC past above 78%.
I have total of 10 revision the last 4 is where it got stuck at 70+ but not of the logs held the boost constantly just keeps dropping.
Highest WGDC we ever saw was 66.9 wont ever go 67 or up. and thats ALL with ambient temp of 70F
Correct. This is one of the tables that was holding me up. It is called "Max Injector DC" and it's under "Fueling". If you don't increase this, the ECU will pull load. Not saying this is Justin's problem, only one of many tables that could be causing the effect he's seeing. In ATR this table is called Load Target Comp - Injector Base Offset" and is located under "Load Tables", and is a positive value representative of Max IDC-100 or Max IDC-80 (I forget which) relative to Versatuner.
JohnnyTightlips
Motorhead
I was hitting 110 IDC all day long with my boost creep. Maybe that was due to the fact that the car could not bring it down and it just added IDC to keep up.
JohnnyTightlips
Motorhead
Stock is 80, I wonder why that is not in the Absolute Limits area.
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Greenie N00B Member
I just discovered this was my issue today. I am around 300whp and im hitting 100% IDC at 5500rpm 20PSI. How much G/S or hp does a healthy MS6 hit at 80% IDC? I was planning on making 340whp, but looks like im stuck at 300.
JohnnyTightlips
Motorhead
Big turbo problems. You might be able to eak out a little more down load but you will need aux fuel to really get it singing.
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Greenie N00B Member
This is my first "big turbo" car but its my 4th mazdaspeed. I swear everyone was saying stock injectors were good to 380whp? but thats on 93 oct with wmi or what?
edit: can i say "big turbo"? bnr s4 in the grand scheme is kinda small.