andale927's PTE 5558 Gen 2 Build (Built Engine)

[andale927]

Couldn't hurt to check the CAS.
What PCV setup you running?
Is the knock sensor tight? Any audible rattle or anything?

Thanks, I'll check CAS and pull intake manifold to double check on the knock sensor. Pretty much everything rattles with the BSD and all 3 Damond mounts lol.

Short clip of the vibes/noise:


I run a damond OCC with VTA to the PCV valve/intake manifold. Crankcase breather goes to the intake. Also an oil cap which is VTA.

 

[Enki]

The DM mounts are the best for NVH though.
Ticking sounds like injectors; basically normal. I don't think you need to pull the mani to reach behind and feel if the knock sensor is tight or not; it's top middle of the PCV plate so you can use that as a guide (and the ST mani should have more room than stock to get in there and check with unless you're actually Popeye).

Also if you're using forged pistions (non hypereutectic) you need to get some heat in them before they fit properly so that *could* be slap if the oil isn't up to temp yet. I know I only get KR on my motor if I don't let it warm up enough.

I'll probably have to read through the build to find out more about the motor and see if anything stands out, but that probably won't happen tonight.

 

[Enki]

Well, don't really see anything out of the ordinary other than a couple people mentioning issues with stuff they've received from SP63. If that engine lets go randomly, you can expect to be blamed for it, even if it turns out to be a glaring issue with the engine itself (as you received it).

 

[andale927]

I tightened the knock sensor without removing the intake manifold, but same issue.

I am running an open downpipe right now, I know its probably not an issue but starting to grasp at straws. I know my coldpipe is hitting the oil filter hosing, not really a way to fix that though, maybe I'll put a piece of foam in between.

Will verify engine timing this week.

 

[JohnnyTightlips]

I tightened the knock sensor without removing the intake manifold, but same issue.

I am running an open downpipe right now, I know its probably not an issue but starting to grasp at straws. I know my coldpipe is hitting the oil filter hosing, not really a way to fix that though, maybe I'll put a piece of foam in between.

Will verify engine timing this week.

If you cut a silicone coupler you can slide it over the pipe where it is hitting, that is how I fixed a few rubbing spots. Then just zip tie that into place.

 

[Easter Bunny]

Open downpipe could be part of it

 

[Enki]

Not unless it's tapping on something, IMO.

 

[Ssinstaller]

I know my coldpipe is hitting the oil filter hosing, not really a way to fix that though, maybe I'll put a piece of foam in between.

That'll be your issue. That metal on metal contact is going to sound just like knock to the sensor.

 

[andale927]

I checked the CAS and it was off by a little more than a quarter tooth, which is only about 1.5 degrees. I double checked all the motor mounts and isolated the cold pipe that was hitting the oil filter housing.

I went for an extended drive and everything feels amazing, the BSD and lightened flywheel make it so rev happy lol. There was no change in KR, but it happens in a very isolated load region. I think I'm just not going to worry about it and attempt to tune it out.

My only concern is how the ECU will react if I increase the offsets in the region enough to get rid of the KR. The logic will probably still advance timing until the point of knock at times and won't be able to pull it back if I tune out the KR in the region. If I don't touch the offsets drivability will suffer because of how much timing its pulling... Maybe just decrease the max timing that it can pull in the region to 3-4 degrees and reduce the multiplier in that area as well.

I bought a piezoelectric guitar pickup, when I get time I'll attempt to isolate the source of the KR, but not for a few weeks.

 

[Enki]

Toss some corn in the tank first and see if it goes down at all. If not, probably mechanical.

 

[andale927]

I got the downpipe situation fixed on Saturday, no effect on the KR.

Also got started tuning, it's so much damn fun! Plus no waiting on revisions lol. Pretty much have the fuel curve dialed in for the areas I am currently touching, should be perfect with the next revision. Got a 93 basemap dialed in and jumped straight to an E50 mix.



Boost isn't hitting quite where I want it, but this is still with pretty mild VVT and very low timing. I need to check out the wastegate preload, not getting much reaction from increasing WGDC (Above run is hitting ~30WGDC at redline and only hit 1 more psi than 0 WGDC). I currently have about 7mm of preload, how much are other people running with the EFR kit?

 

[Enki]

Generally speaking, if you're using an IWG and 3 port EBCS, you won't see much change until ~40%, at which point you'll gain like ~1-2 PSI.
What I find handy is to do a 0% map, 40% map, 60% map and 80% map (depending on goals, spring pressure, etc; keep flat WGDC across the board) so you can flash on the fly and see if you should stop at a certain point; saves a bit of time at least.

Note:
Even if you make a 60% and 80% map, you don't have to actually flash it; it's just there in case you have the fueling and turbo headroom and you'll wind up making smaller maps on a larger spring or taller maps (up to 80%) on a lower spring, as an example.

 

[andale927]

Generally speaking, if you're using an IWG and 3 port EBCS, you won't see much change until ~40%, at which point you'll gain like ~1-2 PSI.
What I find handy is to do a 0% map, 40% map, 60% map and 80% map (depending on goals, spring pressure, etc; keep flat WGDC across the board) so you can flash on the fly and see if you should stop at a certain point; saves a bit of time at least.

Note:
Even if you make a 60% and 80% map, you don't have to actually flash it; it's just there in case you have the fueling and turbo headroom and you'll wind up making smaller maps on a larger spring or taller maps (up to 80%) on a lower spring, as an example.

Very good info, thanks man! I have pretty much zero tuning experience, should have probably done a little more research on WGDCs. I am already almost touching ~96% IDC at redline on E50, but it's also running a little rich from false knock up there. Need to mess with the knock offsets at around 6300rpm.

I also brushed up on my spreadsheet skills and got a little automation going for WOT mafcal based on someone else's spreadsheet. Working great so far!

 

[Enki]

Not sure it's false knock...I hate to say this but I think there might be something up with your engine, possibly the build.

I have a 600 WHP "loose tolerance" road race build and the only time I've had knock is when the pistons are still too cold and I've given it the foot. In fact, it's so bad that if I idle below ~900, you'd swear a rod was sticking out the side of the block; otherwise, perfectly fine.

 

[andale927]

Not sure it's false knock...I hate to say this but I think there might be something up with your engine, possibly the build.

I have a 600 WHP "loose tolerance" road race build and the only time I've had knock is when the pistons are still too cold and I've given it the foot. In fact, it's so bad that if I idle below ~900, you'd swear a rod was sticking out the side of the block; otherwise, perfectly fine.

It's pretty depressing to hear, and I don't doubt you... but I don't feel like I have a choice but to continue with the assumption of the engine being okay.

I attached a few E50 logs if you don't mind taking a look. There's no such thing as KR from too little timing is there lol?

 

[Enki]

OK well I thought you said you had a lot of knock...That actually just looks like resonance or possibly a loose bolt somewhere what with how unreliable it is.

 

[andale927]

OK well I thought you said you had a lot of knock...That actually just looks like resonance or possibly a loose bolt somewhere what with how unreliable it is.

Yeah, I only have a shit ton of knock at part throttle (like 6-8 degrees consistently). The WOT KR doesn't seem terrible though.

 

[Enki]

That's...Pretty odd.

This is after letting the engine oil come up to temp, right? Like 5-10 miles after ECT hits 180 ish...

 

[andale927]

That's...Pretty odd.

This is after letting the engine oil come up to temp, right? Like 5-10 miles after ECT hits 180 ish...

Yup, even after driving for an hour.

 

[Ssinstaller]

If your still learning the KR profile on a new build you should be on pump gas. Bring your timing up 1-2 degrees at a time until you see a real/consistant KR change. Then back out your last adjustment, switch to e50, and you'll know any KR you're still getting is false and can be trimmed out using the sensor adjustments in ATR.

On e50 with timing that low I'd bet that all the KR in those two logs is false/mechanical, but you can't adjust the sensor offset because you dont have any baseline info with a fuel and timing levels that could possibly cause real knock.