Enki
Motorhead
Building for the road course...again
- Thread starter gotovato
- Start date
- Watchers 22
Crazycanadian
Greenie Member
Those Golden era hondas are closer to 2100lbs - 2000lbs when done right for autocross classes. I want to build one. Just gotta sell 20 years worth of Mazda Protege, 323 GTX, Mx3 parts.. The 323 is a pig at 2260lbs without driver. This was my hay day 323. It was 2100lbs with a 2.5L V6. You'd probaly change your mind about autocross driving it.
I've been following Eric Kutil battling in the GLTC series. I haven't followed much of the time attack stuff. Need someone like yourself to put out a series to show case all the trials, up and downs that goes on with winning in that side of things. I like seeing how the different combinations can compete with one another. Some day I'll get down to the Laguna Seca grid life event.
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gotovato
Greenie Member
I think for time attack/GLTC these guys run some pretty serious cages which adds some weight back. Not sure if autox requires a cage?
Either way those cars are crazy light lol. My car sits at high 2600’s/low 2700’s depending on if I have the rear interior removed. Class rules between series are different for interior removal so I had to reinstall everything. Total bummer. That said I have made it work. The car has been successful given the effort and money spent so I really can’t complain. Specially against my competition!
That sounds like a riot! I’ve never owned/driven something so light with any amount of power. Maybe my 1997 srt4 swapped neon coupe. It was about 2550lbs with me in it and made about 350hp. Tire cooking machine that thing was.
I’m not much of a GLTC guy myself but I have been following Eric because I enjoy his build and his driving which is what makes him successful. I feel like you could not just put anyone in that car and expect to be on podium. His level of setup is also top tier all the angles and curves measured and tuned for his suspension. He is a few levels above me in that regard and it’s really changed my thoughts on the whole setup thing. I’d like to spend some time/money also measuring all the camber curves and toe curves and whatnot. I’m at the point where a few tenths of lap time is the difference between 1st place and 5th place so every bit matters.
I watched the Laguna stream and made the decision that I too will be going for the 38 hour tow one day. I told myself 2027 I’ll take the civic down to Laguna. Competitive or not who cares just driving that track is worth it. The experience would be unreal.
Maybe 2026 I can hit up Midwest fest. I’m thinking about it but getting a ticket is almost impossible it seems.
You mention a series from myself..I’d love to. The ins and outs ups and downs as you said. I’ve have more than my fare share and I don’t mind talking about it and showing that with the good sometimes comes the bad and that’s just the cost of doing business. One thing no one talks about is the mental durability required to do this shit specially after being kicked in the face multiple times.
I’ve done 2 engine swaps this season with a third coming soon lol. What a life
Crazycanadian
Greenie Member
Thankfully Autocross doesn't require a cage.
Eric's build is next level. My goal for this winter is to map out my suspension the way he has and start optimizing it. I am a better setup, tuning guy than I am driver. The 323 runs some interesting choices most people wouldn't expect when it comes to the alignment. One of them being my camber plate setup. I used them reduce camber and lower the SAI angle. All my camber is done with slots at the knuckle. I geek out on that kinda stuff. Playing with shock settings and tire pressures a lot at autocross. depending on ambient temps, surface condition, course lay out. It can make a big difference. Just like you do, I pay attention to tire ware. When I am really on it, I'll measure tire temps across the face of the tire as soon as I can after a run.
Maybe I'll see you down at Laguna Seca. A 2027 goal could be do able for me.
The metal side of racing is what separates the true racer from the weekend warrior. Having your built motor blow up after all the money and work put into it would kill most peoples drive. To come back from that with some used motors just to keep going show cases your grit and determination to get back out there and keep going. I think that kind of stuff makes for good content to watch.
I used to write a blog, had a website, kept up with forums like this as a way to document everything. I miss doing it.
Eric's build is next level. My goal for this winter is to map out my suspension the way he has and start optimizing it. I am a better setup, tuning guy than I am driver. The 323 runs some interesting choices most people wouldn't expect when it comes to the alignment. One of them being my camber plate setup. I used them reduce camber and lower the SAI angle. All my camber is done with slots at the knuckle. I geek out on that kinda stuff. Playing with shock settings and tire pressures a lot at autocross. depending on ambient temps, surface condition, course lay out. It can make a big difference. Just like you do, I pay attention to tire ware. When I am really on it, I'll measure tire temps across the face of the tire as soon as I can after a run.
Maybe I'll see you down at Laguna Seca. A 2027 goal could be do able for me.
The metal side of racing is what separates the true racer from the weekend warrior. Having your built motor blow up after all the money and work put into it would kill most peoples drive. To come back from that with some used motors just to keep going show cases your grit and determination to get back out there and keep going. I think that kind of stuff makes for good content to watch.
I used to write a blog, had a website, kept up with forums like this as a way to document everything. I miss doing it.
gotovato
Greenie Member
I don’t know where I fall on the scale of better driver vs builder vs setup guy.
I definitely know I prefer driving to setting up and building.
I would like to go through my suspension and measure everything as well. Maybe this winter.
I also use my camber plates in an interesting way. They’re turned sideways so they adjust caster. My camber is done at the knuckle as well which is ok but on my car it does slip sometimes. It can be frustrating. This season it’s been mostly OK but it’s really random.
Would be cool to meet at Laguna seca. I’ve met other members from this forum at gingerman in Michigan. That was cool.
I strongly considered parting out and selling everything off after that built motor went. It was very upsetting. I was so over it. But my want to continue racing just took over. I cried and bitched about it of course lol…but ultimately I did what I had to do to get back out there. Cant stop.
This season I suffered another engine failure which was frustrating but of course that was a junkyard special that I pushed way past what is considered safe and I paid the price but it was in the name of competition so that’s ok by my standards.
I keep the forum thread going so I can document the journey. It’s great when every so often someone like yourself comes across it. I’m glad someone finds this interesting lol.
I think next season maybe I will start vlogging or something. Just video thread basically of what I have going on. Cover the events. Might be interesting for people to see what a grassroots dude with limited shop space and budget is out here doing lol
I definitely know I prefer driving to setting up and building.
I would like to go through my suspension and measure everything as well. Maybe this winter.
I also use my camber plates in an interesting way. They’re turned sideways so they adjust caster. My camber is done at the knuckle as well which is ok but on my car it does slip sometimes. It can be frustrating. This season it’s been mostly OK but it’s really random.
Would be cool to meet at Laguna seca. I’ve met other members from this forum at gingerman in Michigan. That was cool.
I strongly considered parting out and selling everything off after that built motor went. It was very upsetting. I was so over it. But my want to continue racing just took over. I cried and bitched about it of course lol…but ultimately I did what I had to do to get back out there. Cant stop.
This season I suffered another engine failure which was frustrating but of course that was a junkyard special that I pushed way past what is considered safe and I paid the price but it was in the name of competition so that’s ok by my standards.
I keep the forum thread going so I can document the journey. It’s great when every so often someone like yourself comes across it. I’m glad someone finds this interesting lol.
I think next season maybe I will start vlogging or something. Just video thread basically of what I have going on. Cover the events. Might be interesting for people to see what a grassroots dude with limited shop space and budget is out here doing lol
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I love it. 168kph before the corner, opposite lock at 100...that'll make your butt pucker, LOL
Please throw those tires out lol
Crazycanadian
Greenie Member
Weeeeee!!!!! little bit of poop... haha!!
Props on your driving to keep it under control . I had a couple of those moments running on 10 year old BFG Rivals this year until they got some heat in them.
Props on your driving to keep it under control . I had a couple of those moments running on 10 year old BFG Rivals this year until they got some heat in them.
gotovato
Greenie Member
haha yea it was a little spicy. Tons of fun though and some great lessons in car control.
Yeap lol they will be street only/rollers now. They are cooked
Its amazing how tires work lol. I have my fast setup in the truck but decided it wasnt worth swapping as this wasnt a serious hardcore event. Couldve bolted on close to 2 seconds worth of laptime but i was having some fun with the oversteer lol.
Still finished P3 in class so i cant complain. It was a fun day
Crazycanadian
Greenie Member
It's interesting to see them letting loose mid to late corner. When the car pretty settled in the corner.
Kinda reminds you...Winter is coming 
gotovato
Greenie Member
My thoughts is when the rear is most loaded up? One of our theories is it’s just too much setup for the tire. Even earlier in the season with the rs4’s the car was always a little extra loose. Never this bad but still more so then when I run my competition tires. Too much rear bar for the grip available maybe
Crazycanadian
Greenie Member
How old were the fronts compared to the rears?
It might be sign that you need to look at some ways to get more rear grip. New sticky competition spec tires might be masking a setup flaw. Maybe toe changes due to the extra grip and how much more the chassis rolls over, is making the car more stable.
I was talking with some autocross friends at an event last weekend about playing with car setup. The traditional way of thinking on a FWD is big rear bar to get the car to rotate. But what about more rear grip? maybe play with some toe out. Bigger front bar, softer rear. The idea is to try and increase total grip for the car. Change up compression and rebound to transfer less weight to the front.
Have you watched any of his videos on good tires?
gotovato
Greenie Member
Front tires were 1 season old and donated to me by a buddy. They were brand new last season and he did maybe 4-5 track days on them.
Rears are from 2021. Not sure on the date code. Probably 2020. They were my street tires that saw the odd track day. They are very low on tread and have probably 10-12 heat cycles on them since 2021. They also sat on the car all winter last season out in my garage so I think the rubbers just done.
Mix in a big rear bar and a very front end positive alignment and yea. It’s a slip and slide.
The car runs 0 toe all around but the rear bushings are long long gone. Might be some active toe happening back there. Sphericals will go in this winter. Might make it better might make it more loose which is also OK lol.
To Easter bunnies point when I am on my competition tires the car is not so wild. Rotation is expected and the car is very confidence inspiring.
The track saw 24 hours of rain before we arrived. Everyone was slipping and sliding. Multiple spin outs that day.
The way me and my shop have the car setup is basically rotation at all times unless on throttle. With the soft 200tw tires the car works exactly as it should.
On this day I had
245/40/17 rs4’s up front
235/45/17 rears
Competition setup is Nankang CRS
255/40/17
225/40/17
Crazycanadian
Greenie Member
The old rears vs newer fronts, with a slight stagger makes sense. I didn't want to assume the condition of the fronts.
gotovato
Greenie Member
I always run a stagger but yea the age of the tires were too far apart. heat cycles and all. Its ok. It was a good day regardless.
I will also add that the car is far from easy to drive. It’s not setup to be easy.
I wouldn’t put a single one of my friends in the driver seat. Not even the guys who go to the track. It took me a season to figure out how to drive it after we put the setup in it. It was all at once. Alignment, sway bar, coilovers, stagger wheels/tires. That all happened at once and i almost parted out and quit track driving. I could not make a single lap without spinning the car. The learning curve was steep for me coming from the mazda which was so front heavy it would plow always.
Not easy to drive but it works. Similar theory to how Max Verstappen likes his car setup. The other drivers find it almost undrivable. They hate it. He likes it real loose lol.
End of the day you can’t go wot if you’re still steering. Get it rotated. Open the wheel. Floor it!! This coming from a guy who cant rely on power lol
gotovato
Greenie Member
Last washing of the season. Ready for storage. Wheels have been washed and brought indoors for storage. Those tires still have a race in em so better to not ruin them.
I always make sure to get the corrosive brake dust off the wheels and car before storage. It was caked.
Now to get ready for the winter depression. She hits hard
I can’t help but say what I fan I am of this wheel. It is not a fancy high end wheel but it is just as light and I love the look.
Until next year
Now to survive the winter. Assemble and swap yet another engine. Hopefully this is the last for some time.
I always make sure to get the corrosive brake dust off the wheels and car before storage. It was caked.
Now to get ready for the winter depression. She hits hard
I can’t help but say what I fan I am of this wheel. It is not a fancy high end wheel but it is just as light and I love the look.
Until next year
Now to survive the winter. Assemble and swap yet another engine. Hopefully this is the last for some time.
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