How Honda Completely Eliminated Torquesteer on the New Civic Type-R (With No Nannies)

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I found this video particularly interesting. It's basically a car review from the Engineering Explained channel on YT. The guy's a legit (degreed and everything) engineer, and I appreciate how he goes into relevant data, telemetry, and physics in lots of his vids.

Anyways, in the middle of his review on the new turbocharged Civic Type-R (makes 306/295 with tons of torque down low, like us), he explained how they completely eliminated torquesteer. It has nothing to do with any electronic nannies and everything to do with clever suspension geometry engineering. If you're interested in just that part, it starts at about 7:37. Enjoy:
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VTMongoose said:
That's basically the same thing they did with Revoknuckle in the Euro RS:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/ford-revoknuckle-and-gm-hiper-strut-explained-tech-dept

The type R is a huge step forward for Honda, and "hot hatch" cars as a whole. I'm looking forward to seeing where this platform goes.
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Indeed. I gotta be honest, those Type-R Honda engineers are legit. Pardon the pun, but they have an amazing track record. Also, one of these new Type-Rs would probably easily hand a Speed its a$$ doing rolls--they weigh ~400lbs less, IIRC, and have more power. They'd definitely outdo us in a track in stock trim vs. stock trim comparison. They're also a decade newer, so there's that development time, etc.

I had a Honda back in the day, a CRX. It was a blast. Maybe a Type-R is in my future. If a new Speed isn't available, this is a great option. I also like the fact the only Type-R option is 2 or 4 door--you get all the amenities otherwise, there's <20lbs difference between the two, and they're the same price.
 
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Gen1's weigh about 3140 which is about the same as the Type R. A fully bolted and tuned speed would easily take one from a roll unless they underrated the engine. With a BNR S3 I am expecting I will be able to hurt some feelings once these show up on the street. Of course I would still rather have the type R not gonna lie.

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VTMongoose said:
Gen1's weigh about 3140 which is about the same as the Type R. A fully bolted and tuned speed would easily take one from a roll unless they underrated the engine. With a BNR S3 I am expecting I will be able to hurt some feelings once these show up on the street. Of course I would still rather have the type R not gonna lie.

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I thought these were 2,900? Yeah, it's be closer then. And I was talking about stock vs. stock, not stock Type-R vs. bolted/tuned Speed. If you bolt/tune one of these Type-Rs, that'd be an interesting comparison: tuned vs. tuned. Stock Type-Rs get to 60 in 5 flat and can hit 170mph. Pretty impressive. We only hit like 155 stock.
 
Probably won't be much of a comparison if the new WRX and Golf R are any indication of what modern engines are capable of.

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VTMongoose said:
Probably won't be much of a comparison if the new WRX and Golf R are any indication of what modern engines are capable of.

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Yep, I'm not scared of them or the Type-R, but I'm putting down 390/385 instead of a stock ~230/250 @ the wheels, LOL. I have a feeling the Type-R has great tuning potential, though. And watch them get aftermarket DIs super quick, becuz Honda, haha.
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SharksInSpace said:
I want to not hate it, but it's just SO UGLY. Plus, honda fanbois are fucking terrible. Impressive from a purely numbers standpoint, though.
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It's definitely is boy-racerish x 10. Having said that, all its aero is functional/well-designed (from an engineering standpoint). Probably part of why it can hit 170.
[doublepost=1498235037][/doublepost]345/357 @ the wheels with just an exhaust an a tune:
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That should handily exceed a fully bolted/tune Speed 3 on 93. Heck, that's more than my bolted S3 Speed on crappy Texas 93.

I hear you @SharksInSpace regarding fanbois. I don't like any fanbois. True car enthusiasts can appreciate any car/platform, even if they have certain ones that are their favorites, you know? My .02, anyways...
 
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It's cool that that thing exists and all but...

It's 30% more than the MS3 was new if you buy it at MSRP. Current dealer markups are pushing them into the $50k + area.
That 35 to 40k area contains a lot of competition with just the Golf R, WRX STi, and Focus RS.
Then it needs to compete with Genesis G80, BMW 2 and 4 series, Audi S3 and A5, Volvo S60 and V60, and what 15k worth of upgrades will do to a brand new BRZ.

That's a tough sell and probably why there's only a limited quantity of them. You really have to want the hopped up economy car to buy one. Again that doesn't make them bad but you're playing in entry level luxury car price territory with something that the targeted demographic can probably just barely afford and the demographic who can afford it but doesn't want.
 
IMG_6868.JPG It's a cool car but I wouldn't buy another "performance" car that is FWD, and the price point on that car is absolutely absurd after the dealer markup. See pic, yea no thanks.
 
Yeah, that markup is ridiculous. It should settle down after it's been out a while. I do love its features and would say it's far more than a "hopped up economy car" due to it being ground-up designed for competitive driving in so many ways (legit Type-R heritage) but I guess that's arguably just semantics. The auto-rev-matching downshifting feature is pretty cool, too.

FWD or no, it's designed for competitive driving. I'd love to see it on a track against cars like the Golf R, WRX STi, and Focus RS. It'd be very interesting, I imagine.
 
the fact it makes stock what a bolted and tuned speed makes (dynoed at 290 whp, but torque graph wasn't there), I think there will be some room to grow.
 
mangosmoothie said:
the fact it makes stock what a bolted and tuned speed makes (dynoed at 290 whp, but torque graph wasn't there), I think there will be some room to grow.
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Indeed. Higher top speed than a Focus RS, better fuel economy (which is nice in the hot-hatch segment), though it is slower to 60 (because not AWD, I'll bet).
 
SharksInSpace said:
and not be a mook who paid $60k for a fucking civic.
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As impressed as I am with Honda, in general, and their Type-R program, in particular, I'd never pay nearly double the MSRP. Becuz exclusive doesn't resonate with me where I'd pay such a ridiculous amount more than the car is worth.

Heck, for that about of extra money, you could have a top-notch fabbing shop do custom work on our front suspensions to accomplish the same goal, I'd bet, and a built motor, 600+whp, whole nine yards.... Heck, you could AWD conversion for that price difference too, LOL.
 
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monkey.bones.007 said:
I bought a stage 3 Roush for 55k. 670hp/545tq. Fyhn

crapatalk it sucks for free
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I bet if you put $20k (bringing it up to $55k if you can find one for MSRP) in that Type-R, it'd FYFN :p Heck, I've seen junkyard Hondas with huge EBay turbos putting down over 700whp and weight only like 2,500lbs, costing only around $5k total for everything. They're definitely beaters, though. Raggedy as heck.
(BTW, technically I don't have a Honda :D).

Joking aside, a Roush would be nice.
 
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