Stage 2 RMM for Mazdaspeed!

[PadreDave]

Mine is in too. Very subjective scale of NVH from 1 being none to 10 being my dental fillings have fallen out...I give it a 2. A little more vibration but more than made up for by stability. Everything is so much tighter and stable. It is hard to completely separate it from the effects of the rear antisway bar from CS that was also installed at the same time. I probably should have done a test drive after each mod.

Oh, and thanks for the little piece of CS swag in the package too!

 

[Db09ms3]

Mine is in too. Very subjective scale of NVH from 1 being none to 10 being my dental fillings have fallen out...I give it a 2. A little more vibration but more than made up for by stability. Everything is so much tighter and stable. It is hard to completely separate it from the effects of the rear antisway bar from CS that was also installed at the same time. I probably should have done a test drive after each mod.

Oh, and thanks for the little piece of CS swag in the package too!

Sweet. Any other mounts installed? I have the PMM and TMM stockers with CS RMM Race Mount. This looks like a good step up.

 

[PadreDave]

Nope, the others are and will remain stock, mainly due to NVH. My Mazda tech advised against any more aftermarket mounts.


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[Redline]

Nope, the others are and will remain stock, mainly due to NVH. My Mazda tech advised against any more aftermarket mounts.


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If NVH avoidance is you main goal, that's a good idea. But be careful... Did he also advise you that passenger motor mounts are prone to fail and can pop causing you to drag your engine along the highway while you're going 70?

 

[PadreDave]

So, what is the life expectancy of the TMM and PMM after installation of the Stage 2 RMM? Has it been demonstrated that anchoring the rear of the motor/transaxle to the frame induces increased stress on the OEM mounts? My understanding is that adding aftermarket TMM and PMM makes NVH so bad that it is not acceptable for a daily driver. Am I misinformed on this? Has anyone installed all 3 CS mounts? What is your NVH like? I go back to your original question with my original question: Does the presence of the CS Stage 2 RMM induce such extreme force on the TMM and PMM that they are likely to break under normal loads?


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[Redline]

So, what is the life expectancy of the TMM and PMM after installation of the Stage 2 RMM? Has it been demonstrated that anchoring the rear of the motor/transaxle to the frame induces increased stress on the OEM mounts? My understanding is that adding aftermarket TMM and PMM makes NVH so bad that it is not acceptable for a daily driver. Am I misinformed on this? Has anyone installed all 3 CS mounts? What is your NVH like? I go back to your original question with my original question: Does the presence of the CS Stage 2 RMM induce such extreme force on the TMM and PMM that they are likely to break under normal loads?


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Those are lots of great questions that are all-but-impossible to definitely answer, such as @ xx,xxx miles, your PMM will fail. What I can tell you is lots of folks have had the PMM snap and literally drop the engine while driving because it is a poor/weak design.

People mod for lots of reasons. One of the reasons I mod is "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Replacing a known-weak part with a far superior/stronger one (even if it adds some NVH) is a very wise thing to do. If you want to get into an engineering view on this, perhaps @Farhan@DM or @Matt@DM can address your questions more comprehensively.

I personally run all 3 of their mounts, and although NVH is notably more than all stock, it's still notably less than multiple mounts of another manufacturer that I've used. And with 390/385 @ the wheels (compared to the stock 230/250 @ the wheels), much stronger mounts that significantly limit engine movement are pretty much necessary for me. The Damond mounts are rock-solid/overengineered. I'm not in the least bit concerned they'll fail.

You should search and read. Then, when you're done, search and read more and more. There's tons of info on motor mounts.

 

[SharksInSpace]

I have CS race RMM and DM PMM right now; by no means do I consider NVH to be excessive for daily driver duties. It is increased over stock mounts but is WELL worth it for how much more planted and stable the engine feels; I'd actually argue that the improved shifting feel makes the car even better as a daily driver despite any increase in NVH.

 

[PadreDave]

I have CS race RMM and DM PMM right now; by no means do I consider NVH to be excessive for daily driver duties. It is increased over stock mounts but is WELL worth it for how much more planted and stable the engine feels; I'd actually argue that the improved shifting feel makes the car even better as a daily driver despite any increase in NVH.

Thanks for that. I am really pleased with the Stage 2 RMM. It seems to be settling in and the vibration is a whole lot less than the first day it was installed. It is definitely louder in the cabin, but not outside.

So, let's be honest here: Have any of you had the stock motor mounts break as a complication of installing the Stage 2 RMM from CS?. Could some of you engineer types explain to me how a new RMM would increase the stress on the other motor mounts. Watching the CS video, it looks like the RMM has the most movement of all of the three under load. Their new RMM seems to anchor the bottom of the engine to the frame. Brett from CS: have you ever had a Stage 2 break causing the engine to be dragged on the ground?

I am not blasting my Speed around at WOT, it is not a race car, I don't street race and will never take part in such things (you might know that i was one of the first Paramedics in Arizona and taught it for 20 years while I practiced, and I saw lots of the results of young testosterone driven behavior). I like to have a firm handling, reasonably fast car to operate on the streets at acceptable levels of speed....yes, over the speed limit, but not often. Shoot, I get 26-32 mpg showing on my average MPG on my screen in the Speed.

Redline, I am not calling you out or challenging you, but if what you warn of is true, then THANK YOU! I will upgrade the other 2 motor mounts to avoid the catastrophe you wrote of above. If, given my use of the car, the OEM TMM and PMM are OK, cool. I want to be safe and have some fun, not be a hazard to myself and other drivers on the road.

Goodness, guys, I am an old Pastor trying to have some fun. Please help me to keep my Speed fun and safe. Thanks and God bless you all!

 

[Redline]

Thanks for that. I am really pleased with the Stage 2 RMM. It seems to be settling in and the vibration is a whole lot less than the first day it was installed. It is definitely louder in the cabin, but not outside.

So, let's be honest here: Have any of you had the stock motor mounts break as a complication of installing the Stage 2 RMM from CS?. Could some of you engineer types explain to me how a new RMM would increase the stress on the other motor mounts. Watching the CS video, it looks like the RMM has the most movement of all of the three under load. Their new RMM seems to anchor the bottom of the engine to the frame. Brett from CS: have you ever had a Stage 2 break causing the engine to be dragged on the ground?

I am not blasting my Speed around at WOT, it is not a race car, I don't street race and will never take part in such things (you might know that i was one of the first Paramedics in Arizona and taught it for 20 years while I practiced, and I saw lots of the results of young testosterone driven behavior). I like to have a firm handling, reasonably fast car to operate on the streets at acceptable levels of speed....yes, over the speed limit, but not often. Shoot, I get 26-32 mpg showing on my average MPG on my screen in the Speed.

Redline, I am not calling you out or challenging you, but if what you warn of is true, then THANK YOU! I will upgrade the other 2 motor mounts to avoid the catastrophe you wrote of above. If, given my use of the car, the OEM TMM and PMM are OK, cool. I want to be safe and have some fun, not be a hazard to myself and other drivers on the road.
Goodness, guys, I am an old Pastor trying to have some fun. Please help me to keep my Speed fun and safe. Thanks and God bless you all!

Here's the problem: there are simply faaaaaaaar too many variables to say that adding a RMM will make the PMM more likely to fail with any definitiveness. Now it stands to reason if one of the three mounting points is more solid that the other two would see more forces, but I don't have the background or a formula to substantiate that. My best recommendation is to replace a known-weak part with a much more robust/stronger one, like the Damond PMM. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. TMMs don't have such a bad rep, AFAIK, but I'd definitely replace the PMM if it starts failing, such as the liquid in the mount starts leaking out.

Just FYI, the info MPG screen is known to read several MPGs high. The best indicator of mileage is dividing the total miles driven by the gallons it takes to fill up.

 

[Easter Bunny]

I get the same range on my MPG while driving like a complete ass hat.

The PMM when it fails fails in a way that simply releases the motor. I had mine fail at 50k miles on stock tune while using only a CPe stage 1 RMM thankfully it generated a ton of vibration at idle when it was failing so i caught it early.

 

[PadreDave]

I get the same range on my MPG while driving like a complete ass hat.

The PMM when it fails fails in a way that simply releases the motor. I had mine fail at 50k miles on stock tune while using only a CPe stage 1 RMM thankfully it generated a ton of vibration at idle when it was failing so i caught it early.

Got it! I will look at replacing one at a time to see how NVH is in my daily drives. I appreciate the help and advice.

 

[SharksInSpace]

The PMM bushing will pop at some point, guaranteed, but I do not know if there's any correlation between a stiffer RMM and shorter stock PMM life. When mine went (and it was actually gone for a while before I finally replaced it with the DM mount; also didn't kick the bucket until 1.5-2 years after I put in the CS RMM), it simply increased vibration and how much the engine moved/bucked when clutching in or letting off the throttle at cruise. It wasn't like the engine was literally falling down in the bay or anything absurd or dangerous of that sort, since the giant metal frame of it was still fully intact...it just lacked the NVH reduction that the bushing offers when still intact and functional.

Smart plan, like you said, will be to just change one at a time and make sure it's still within your comfort level. If one of them does end up pushing beyond your NVH limit, the nice part is that it's usually pretty easy to resell a mount to someone else.

 

[PadreDave]

The PMM bushing will pop at some point, guaranteed, but I do not know if there's any correlation between a stiffer RMM and shorter stock PMM life. When mine went (and it was actually gone for a while before I finally replaced it with the DM mount; also didn't kick the bucket until 1.5-2 years after I put in the CS RMM), it simply increased vibration and how much the engine moved/bucked when clutching in or letting off the throttle at cruise. It wasn't like the engine was literally falling down in the bay or anything absurd or dangerous of that sort, since the giant metal frame of it was still fully intact...it just lacked the NVH reduction that the bushing offers when still intact and functional.

Smart plan, like you said, will be to just change one at a time and make sure it's still within your comfort level. If one of them does end up pushing beyond your NVH limit, the nice part is that it's usually pretty easy to resell a mount to someone else.

Thanks again. I compared the PMM design for the CS and the Damond and ordered the Damond.
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My best recommendation is to replace a known-weak part with a much more robust/stronger one, like the Damond PMM. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. TMMs don't have such a bad rep, AFAIK, but I.

Thanks for the advice and recommendation. I ordered the Damond PMM.

 

[sp0rk]

I'd like to jump in and add that my stock pmm failed at 80k miles with all stock mounts an cs rmm inserts. So I think it's safe to say your pmm will fail one way or another. I don't even drive that hard myself.

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[JFSpeed3]

Mounts week be my first upgrades.

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[JFSpeed3]

Will be...

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[Redline]

And then HPFP internals and an AccessPORT or VT! The essential, beginning 3 mods

 

[JFSpeed3]

That is the plan

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[Finch204]

For those that had their PMMs fail, how hard do you guys drive? Do you street race? Launch from a stop? Auto-cross?

I'm approaching 68k miles on my car and so far my PMM has held up. I don't to do auto-cross or street racing though and I rarely launch from a stop.

 

[Redline]

For those that had their PMMs fail, how hard do you guys drive? Do you street race? Launch from a stop? Auto-cross?

I'm approaching 68k miles on my car and so far my PMM has held up. I don't to do auto-cross or street racing though and I rarely launch from a stop.

I never let mine get to that point, but I honestly drive pretty sedately 99% of the time. FWIH, it's not a matter of if the PMM will fail, but when. And it can be gradual, like the fluid leaking out, or catastrophic, like the mount's aluminum mounting bracket itself literally snapping in two.