Disi-MZResponse

[KCi]

These guys: https://www.facebook.com/speedsolutionsLLC/

They have excellent customer service, as you can see.. They did the hand porting to the hotside of this head, and you can see the quality of that in a prior post.[/lQUOTE]

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This is really what the community wanted. Quick feedback and owning up their products.

Some of the vendors that started out from Mazdaspeed platform used to be in this level of quality service but their services were getting worst each day and only responding to question in matter of days (notice that "s"). I understand their businesses are growing but this will drive ppl away from them.

 

[Enki]

To be clear, none of this is their fault. They got fucked over just as hard as I did by trusting someone to do the CNC work I wanted, and it wasn't clear that there was going to be an issue with the head until after it came back; this same person apparently fucked over other Mazda owners and there's been a bit of chatter on the book of faces over it.

Again, SpeedSolutions isn't to blame here, but they are making it right anyways.

 

[Redline]

So is "technological maturbation" staring really hard (pun intended) at a formula or set of "hard parts/engine pron" and "getting off"? o.0

 

[Enki]

@VTMongoose probably needs to answer that.

 

[Enki]

Round 2...

 

[Redline]

Round 2...
View attachment 4590

CS Seals being used? That's the route imma go...

 

[Enki]

Of course.

 

[Slow6_pl]

In for the guys at Speed Solutions. Chris and Fozzy have helped me a lot, from VVT, to diagnosing timing issues that weren't there. I'll be putting my car in their hands for my topmount turbo soon.

But I digress. Love the info you got on here man. Way to push the platform!

 

[Redline]

Had a chat with Gerhard at Bell Intercoolers about a custom top mount intercooler a while back and I'm probably going to have them make me one in a different layout by sending them a stock intercooler with shroud to work with for mounting and whatnot. The inlet will be 2.5" and the outlet will be factory size of 2.75".


It would be similar to the configuration of WRX/STI intercoolers...Speaking of which, here's what an STI is capable of on an EFR 7163 using a TMIC:

The intercooler on that STI is made by ETS (39 rows) and measures 21 x 7 x 4 which is 588 inches of core area; they don't list a flow rating for the core, but they have dyno graphs showing ~560 WHP on an E85 tuned STI.

Now to roll that into what ETS says about their MS3 TMIC:

So basically, the inlet (2") and outlet (2.75") restrict flow to about 600 hp worth, and the surface area of the core and airflow over it further reduce efficiency to about a maximum of 450 (probably crank rated) at 50 MPH. It's probably worth noting that their intercooler for our cars is 19 row and probably about the same dimensions as the CPE unit, but I can't find any hard info on core size.

I currently have a CPE TMIC which has rough core dimensions of 13.5 x 11.75 x 3.25; comparing this with the closest flow rated core Bell has (13.4 x 12.00 x 3.50 = 562.80 cubic inches and 799 CFM), the CPE probably flows around 750 CFM max for the core. The one I chose from Bell (part number A300195120) has dimensions of 19.2 x 12 x 3. Stats on these intercoolers are listed below:

Here are the above intercoolers ranked in core area (cubic inches; possible cooling capacity; higher is better):
TR10: 882
Bell: 702
TR8: 600.6
ETS: 546
CPE: 515.53

And again in surface area (cubic inches; possible cooling efficiency; higher is better):
TR10: 252
Bell: 234
TR8: 171.6
CPE: 185.625
ETS: 168

And again by flow (CFM, potential horsepower, higher is better):
ETS: 1176 (core, actual lower)
TR10: 1000
Bell: 982 (core)
TR8: 750
CPE: 750 (estimated max, likely lower due to piping size restriction)

Some rough math had my old setup at about 724 CFM required at redline, and only 765 CFM required for the destroke build (but at a much higher PSI).

Oh, and as far as TMIC shroud flow goes, I estimate there is between 25 and 30 square inches of surface area/ducting, which will hurt overall cooling; however, I plan on stepping up my meth nozzle overall flow from 16 GPH to 20 to further help with cooling.

More to follow...

Good stuff, but in the intercooler discussion (way earlier in the thread) how would you factor in fin density and design, whether staggered or not? The TR8, for instance, uses their medium density core, which provides a balance of good flow and cooling. What about this key variable on the other cores? Also, going to use an IC sprayer?

 

[Enki]

Good stuff, but in the intercooler discussion (way earlier in the thread) how would you factor in fin density and design, whether staggered or not? The TR8, for instance, uses their medium density core, which provides a balance of good flow and cooling. What about this key variable on the other cores?

Fin density is factored based on airflow and surface area. Regardless, it's no longer an issue as I'm not going that route anymore (as stated earlier in the thread).

Also, going to use an IC sprayer?

No need on full E85 with meth.

 

[Redline]

Fin density is factored based on airflow and surface area. Regardless, it's no longer an issue as I'm not going that route anymore (as stated earlier in the thread).


No need on full E85 with meth.

I'm not talking about external fin density, but internal. The type, for instance, that Treadstone has 3 of. Many of their cores use their medium fin density (in the channels the boosted air flows through). A regular TR8 is a common example. The TR8L, on the other hand, is an example of a core that uses their lower internal fin density for the expressed purpose of supporting higher horsepower (less restriction/less pressure drop). I'm sure Bell has something equivalent?

Regardless, if it's a moot point, that's cool (no pun intended). I just wanted to clarify.

 

[Enki]

10. Custom TMIC for sleeper look and improved radiator airflow/cooling after I get data on using a Corksport TMIC; not going to happen immediately, but will eventually happen.

Probably a year, maybe more; depending on how much the CS TMIC flows. If I can get over 400 to the wheel on the CS TMIC (supplemented chemically) then I very well may never change it up. Hell, I might wind up going chemical only seeing as how I have more than what the stock injectors put out available as aux fuel.

Fin density won't matter that much all said and done; only so much air will flow through the ducting and the setup I had planned will have slow flow through both sides so my efficiency would come more from time in tube than it would optimized fin count.

 

[Redline]

Probably a year, maybe more; depending on how much the CS TMIC flows. If I can get over 400 to the wheel on the CS TMIC (supplemented chemically) then I very well may never change it up. Hell, I might wind up going chemical only seeing as how I have more than what the stock injectors put out available as aux fuel.

Fin density won't matter that much all said and done; only so much air will flow through the ducting and the setup I had planned will have slow flow through both sides so my efficiency would come more from time in tube than it would optimized fin count.

Ah, right. I got thrown off because of the other threads you pointed me to, some of which involved considering Bell intercoolers, etc. Keeping a correct understanding of the chronology/status quo is difficult when I'm jumping all over the place in my reading. Anyways...

Indeed, you won't have a choice with CS. It's not a drop-down box option, or anything. My only concern is what the CS will flow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but of all the TMICs, isn't the CP-e the one known to flow the most? I thought the flow limit on the best TMICs was 400whp. But it can't be stealthy in the way the CS can.

I'm looking at this from an efficiency perspective. For the same reason you're going 3.5" on the exhaust side, I was curious about flow restrictions on the intake side as they relate to the IC. Hopefully the chemical effects of the alky will allow the CS to get you there easily.

 

[Enki]

Another has flowed ~400 whp on a CS TMIC. It's the only reason I'm going to use it over my CPE is because someone else has flowed 400 to the wheels on one; I'll find out exactly what the limit is though.

Keep in mind the turbo has a 2" outlet, and it stays 2" only until the end tank (not a long stretch on a TMIC). If I go chemical only, the piping will be 2" until after the meth nozzles, in which case it will jump up to 2.75".

 

[Redline]

Another has flowed ~400 whp on a CS TMIC. It's the only reason I'm going to use it over my CPE is because someone else has flowed 400 to the wheels on one; I'll find out exactly what the limit is though.

Keep in mind the turbo has a 2" outlet, and it stays 2" only until the end tank (not a long stretch on a TMIC). If I go chemical only, the piping will be 2" until after the meth nozzles, in which case it will jump up to 2.75".

Gotcha. But if you want to have 300 lb/ft all the way to 8k, that'd be ~457whp, or about 12.5% more. Think the alky affect can account for the difference? I suppose it'd be a non-issue w/o an intercooler, but I'm curious how much the alky will cool the charge by itself.

 

[Enki]

One way to find out.

 

[Awafrican]

One way to find out.

And this is why your threads are awesome

 

[Enki]

Minor update; got the following done today:

1. One of two CS camber plates installed
2. Brand new LCAs installed with Whiteline bushing kits swapped over after inspection (both good, one was full of dirt somehow though, weird)
3. CS front LCA brace installed
4. Stabbed myself with the blunt/hand guard part of a knife (click for big, not sure why you'd want to but the option is there):



To do tomorrow:
1. Not stab myself with anything
2. Drill out the second tower
3. Install camber plate
4. Grease sway zerks (Hotchkis front and rear)
5. Take a picture (it will last longer)

Oh and the head is done being ported, just needs to be hot tanked, reassembled, and shipped (maybe tomorrow); some pics of that:

Mild bowl work (not cleaned up yet in this pic):


Intake divider adjustment (minor edge rolling):

Hotside pre and post gasket matching:

All done by hand over the course of a day or two by the guys at SpeedSolutions.

 

[Slow6_pl]

I look like I had depression problems because I have a big black scar on my wrist from my suspension fighting me after I broke a slave cylinder bolt loose. These cars are sadistic.

And the stupid tensioner pulley snapped on me THREE TIMES and bruised my pinky yesterday.

Sadistic.

 

[Everton992000]

I've not done the knife stab, but my Speed has definitely gotten a ton of blood and sweat out of me over the process of my modding journey. Just goes with the territory, I guess. My new Mechanix gloves help, though.

The heat shield near the firewall has cut my friend every single time we've done turbo swaps.


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